Help with Filtration

[kpete4]

Hey, I'm fairly new to the post and am in the process of converting to a reef setup. About 2 years ago I set up my first saltwater tank. A 75 fish only with about 20 pounds of live rock (I know this is under, but it's so expensive!) For filtration I just grabbed a couple filters that I had lying around from my freshwater stuff: Ehiem 2026 canister, and an AquaClear 110. I threw on a seaclone 150 skimmer and have been running this setup since. Never had a problem with unhealthy or stressed fish but I have battle algae quite a bit. Phosphates stay at 0, Ammonia stays at 0, but my nitrates hang at about 20. I've done about a 20 gallon water change every other week w/ mixed RO water.

This setup has worked for my fish only tank, but am I potentially going to have issues with a reef setup????

Feel free to be bluntly honest about the crappyness of my equipment.

thanks!

[spsick]

better skimmer, more rock ( not necessary if you have a deep sand bed, but a plus) you didn't mention your substrate, so I assume you have crushed coral? get 4+ inches of fine aragonite. this is whats worked for me from the start. get some rock from someone in the club, cheap. one thing i've found is if you go cheap on the setup, you'll be fighting algae for the duration.

[storrisch]

algae can become an issue for some LPS.

I def. think that you will need a better skimmer.

Your nitrates could come from overfeeding.

What type of lighting do you have on the tank and what is the lighting schedule?

What type of fish do you have in the tank?

[spsick]

http://www.tcmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1122
decent skimmer for $40, much better than the seaclone.
thats a good start, yeah, what storrisch said about lighting and feeding needs to be answered

[David Grigor]

For nitrates, one of the best methods is a refugium with macro algae in it to outcompete with the hair algae. Second, keeping your ALK/CA/PH in line on a consistant basis is also key. You wanto to promote coraline algae to also outcompete the hair, this will also be a requirment for coral calcification so you need to get a good routine for supplement established now.

Your going to need a pretty significant investment in a skimmer this will be key. Spend the money now and save the headaches with trying to get by with a lesser skimmer particularly when your already having algae issues.

Hair algae is can be a very big problem for LPS. Once any exposed skeleton has algae grow on it, the algae will continue to irritate the coral and will slowly receed away so you must get under control and established.

Your using RO/DI for all top off right ? No conditioned tap water as you will never stay on top of the problem without doing so. If your water has nitrates/phosphates in it then doing water changes only makes it worse.

[spsick]

yea, I would have suggested the fuge, but it sounds like he's standalone with no sump

[David Grigor]

Well, you need to setup your self up for success. Best to do a sump configuation becasue skimmer choices will be the best. Now before you have lots of coral livestock to risk is the time to research and reconfigure to give a head start on a sucessful futre.

Refugium can be hangon or above the tank but most prefer insump for ease of maintenance. On the back can be a real pain.

[oyam123]

Never had a problem with unhealthy or stressed fish but I have battle algae quite a bit. Phosphates stay at 0, Ammonia stays at 0, but my nitrates hang at about 20. I've done about a 20 gallon water change every other week w/ mixed RO water.

So whats the problem?

[kpete4]

I do use the aragonite sand. I don't think I quite have 4 inches though. My lighting at the moment is a double florescent strip with a 50/50 bulb and a 420. It runs on a timer and is only on about 8 hours a day. The lighting is going to be upgraded before any corals are introduced. I'm careful not to feed anything that isn't going to be eaten, but I did get a comment about my trigger being pleasantly plump (I recently sold it) I do have a dwarf zebra lionfish that I feed every other day. Other than that I just feed some flakes and pellets about 2 times a day, and a small portion of something frozen daily (brine, mysis)
Fish: Zebra Dwarf Lionfish (3inch), Flame Angel (2-3inch), Blue Devil Damsel (almost 3 inches, he's a beast) , and a juvi unicorn tang (2-3inch)

[kpete4]

I am using only RO/DI water

[mtfatwork]

Ok first off, stop feeding flake and pellets. Just go with the frozen, and rinse it in ro/di water first. Everyone above is completely correct on you needing a much better skimmer, and a refuge is a great addition. I would really consider getting the tank drilled, it will make life much easier, but if you dont, I would like to point out that your nitrates could very well be coming from your filters. They need to be cleaned constantly, or they end up doing more harm than good.

[storrisch]

I am not sure what you are referring to with the 420 bulb. How old are the bulbs....? If they are older they might also be feeding the algae growth

I would cut out feeding flake if possible to see if that helps and also cut down to feeding once a day.

[kpete4]

Recommendations on skimmers????? this $40 used one from epedimic says it is only rated for 60 gallons.

[kpete4]

Zoo Med Coral Sun Actinic 420 Fluorescent Lamp

[storrisch]

http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=72

http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_35&products_id=47

I would also recommend euro reef skimmers.


there are tons of options out there though....

[mtfatwork]

CPR will not be enough alone for that size tank. Would you consider getting the tank drilled and running a sump? The answer to that question will guide us in skimmer reccomendations, although, I must say, ime you are hard pressed to find a quality HOB skimmer. There are a ton of more options for in sump skimmers.

[spsick]

i guess the octopous HOB is good. is was suggesting using that cpr in addition to the seaclone, if you arent willing to add a sump.

[mtfatwork]

i guess the octopous HOB is good. is was suggesting using that cpr in addition to the seaclone, if you arent willing to add a sump.

That is what I did on my 40 for a long time. Ran both and they kept up just fine.:biggrin:

[mtfatwork]

Its kinda funny how most of us started out with fish only's doing the crappy skimmer thing, and canister filters. Then when we got the itch to do the reef, we found out that all of the equipment that was sustaining our tanks was crap, and we needed a complete overhaul for the most part :)

[oyam123]

SPS & LPS?
Looks like you will need to sell me your Flame angel.
Flame and the Lion for 25# of LR.:wink:

Unless you go with a sump, hold off on all the reef stuff.
If you got the bug, then start with a HOB overflow box and a sump.
Buy a used turbofloter (under $100) and get started.
I have some left over plumbing stuff you can have.

[kpete4]

What if I do water changes every day??? just kidding

I have a beautiful oak stand and canopy that we built thinking freshwater at the time, but I don't think that I can put a sump in the stand. Any suggestions besides "get a new stand?" Has anyone every built something to put a sump in that sits next to the tank or does everyone just do the in-stand thing???

[mtfatwork]

you could build something to put the sump in... I had a tank where I had the sump next to it. You could just build a 4 sided box (Front, top, and 2 sides) to cover it if you wanted, and then throw a table cloth over it, or put a cabinet door on the front and make it look like an end table

[David Grigor]

So are your saying the stand is completely closed off meaning there is no where to physically put a sump. You can always custom an acrylic sump to fit just about any space especially where it is too narrow for a common glass tank. Have you considered relocating the tank so that it is up against the same wall as utility room, laundry room, or under a stair well type where you can put the sump remoted on the other side of the wall. This is really ideal becuase then space becomes even less an issue. Usually this kind of stuff can be usually hid once the tank is long gone by just covering the holes in the sheetrock with face plates so don't let that discourage you from doing plumbing through a wall.

Sometimes you have to take your lumps if you want to do a reef and either get a suitable stand or hold off on making the splurg until your willing to do so. Trying to just make due for now doesn't really work because once you have it setup it makes it harder to make major configuration changes especially of this nature. Taking your time and getting the configuration done right will pay many huge dividends and could be the difference between being in the hobby for life vs. getting frustrated and getting out of the hobby in a matter of months.....

[kpete4]

Alright, I think I'm getting somewhere. I'm pretty sold on the sump and I think I can make it work.

What should I get? or should I try to build one??

I'd love to have a room behind the tank, but it's not going to work with the place I have now

[wes]

hold off on making the splurg until your willing to do so.

but you could get some LR and start cookin' it now!

[wes]

Its kinda funny how most of us started out with fish only's doing the crappy skimmer thing, and canister filters. Then when we got the itch to do the reef, we found out that all of the equipment that was sustaining our tanks was crap, and we needed a complete overhaul for the most part :)

oh gawd dangit isn't THIS the truth. magnum 350, with a name like that, what CAN'T it do? prizm rated for 75 gallons! must be AWESOME on a 50!!! or so went my first days.

[spsick]

I actually built a thing for next to my tank that worked great for about $10 in wood that held a 55 gallon sump, just gave it all away yesterday to PLnelson, so ya missed out.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p245/benandgi/DSCN04930095.jpg

[David Grigor]

What should I get? or should I try to build one??


First you will have to figure out what the max demensions you have to work with. Typically, if able to fit a standard size glass tank like a 30long, 20High, 20long would be the best bet but if you don't even have the 12" front to back for one of these then custom will be your only real option.


You can do lots of creative things next to the tank to hide a remote sump, can make a bench seat with sump under, flower/plant stands etc.......

[spsick]

it looked prettier once I put a piece of fabric on the front

[kpete4]

Would a 20long work??? I have an extra of those. Otherwise I have a 40 high that I could use

[David Grigor]

Anything will work as long as it will fit......Most times you want to try to find the largest you can fit into your space. So measure you space first.

The skimmer is usually the biggest piece so the wider the better to keep your options open for skimmer models.

I always prefer tanks that aren't high. The higher the walls the harder to reach in and/or add equipment. Most applications 12-16" is about right on the overall height but ultilmatly is relevant to tall your stand is.