help with lighting decision

[curlyq]

Background: I have a 58g and currently have 2X96W 36" CFL. The bulbs are really old and will need replacing.
Problem: I want more lighting, and in my searches I found two options to add more and I need help.

1) I found 2 T5 36" retro with ballasts I could put inside my hood. (I just realized the guy didn't put a wattage, maybe 96W each?) Here's the lights he has: 2 bulbs both under a month old (1 X Blue Plus and 1 X Blue. $50

2) Here's the other option: 2 - 250W 20k MH retro kits. PFO probe start ballasts with pfo reflectors and mogul base. $150 The bulbs he said will need to be replaced.

So I don't know what to do. I love the look of MH, but the cost is higher. T5's are more economical, but don't have the shimmer. Overall, I'm trying to find out what will be best for my tank. I know this requires me knowing what I want in my tank, but I'm not sure yet. I'm thinking sps, lps, maybe a clam??? Any thoughts? Will the MH be too much light for my tank? I NEED HELP!! :help: :brainoverload:

[spsick]

on that tank you would want 3 or 4 t5's, on the other hand, I would think 2 250's would be a little much, and unless you have a sizeable sump, you'll have heating issues. I would get that t5 kit, and spend another 100 on a matching new one and youll be set, and have all new bulbs for the price of the MH setup w/ bulbs that need replacing.

[wolmutt]

If the T5s are HO you should be able to have almost any coral or clam. From talking with you I would say that MH are just going to add too many costs down the road for you (i.e., heat, bulb price, etc...) Many individuals are getting great growth out of sps using HO T5s.

[curlyq]

I was kind-of thinking that the 2x250 would be a little much. I think if I did MH I should try to find a lower wattage to minimize heat, but then the bulb price....maybe someday then. (unless anyone wanted to trade 2x250 for lower wattage MH?) Anyway, With the T5 with the bulbs that come with it, what should I get for my CFL bulbs then? I think I'm going to have my cfl fixture in the middle and sandwich it with the T5's. thoughts?

[wes]

of the tanks I've seen with T5's lately, I know my decision is to go that route when I upgrade. They will certainly perform and I like their look. But it sounds like you love the look of MH, which are tried and true. In my experience (other than reefing mainly), I've bought something lesser and kicked myself when I went around and bought what I really wanted in the first place. I know you want a big sump and a fuge, so there will be more water, but your fuge lighting might add some heat rather than help... There are plenty of people who do halides without a chiller, and fans are super cheap at wal-mart. Here's the real question, which does SHE like the look of more? ehh? ehh??

so in summation, go with the LEDs.

[curlyq]

Hahaha. Well, considering SHE doesn't know the difference really (never seen MH vs. T5, all she knows is the CFL we have now) I'm not hooked into anything yet. LED's?? If I had the 3k to spend I might, but then again if I had that much extra $, I'd be doing many things different.

IF I did MH, I think I'd go 2X70w (or 150W or 175W, but 250W seems a bit much) to supplement the 2X96W CFL. hmmm, gotta keep searching.

[David Grigor]

Before commiting to the retro, need more info. Particularly the ballasts and the reflectors. Reflectors are such a key components can be make a significant difference in lightoutput.

2 would likely be a bit on the light side. Tank being 18" wide 3 T5s ( 2 days and 1 actinic ) would do quite well for a community tank. Acros and SPS would work just fine with 3 bulbs as long as the corals are positioned well and 3 would be plenty for LPS / softies. I'd start off with that. You can always add more bulbs later being a retro. No sense running lights that you don't need so don't just start out with 5-6 bulb setup as could be overkill for what your trying to accomplish.

3 T5s with quality individual reflectors ( icecap reflectors are the best ) would be a significant upgrade over 2 96W PCs.

Don't waste your time with 70w MH. T5s will should do quite well and heat won't be an issue that you may face with 150W or greater MH.

[wes]

I was kind-of thinking that the 2x250 would be a little much. I think if I did MH I should try to find a lower wattage to minimize heat, but then the bulb price....maybe someday then. (unless anyone wanted to trade 2x250 for lower wattage MH?) Anyway, With the T5 with the bulbs that come with it, what should I get for my CFL bulbs then? I think I'm going to have my cfl fixture in the middle and sandwich it with the T5's. thoughts?

10K or 50/50 for the cfl, is how I'd go. From what I've read on wwm, actinic does little to supplement par, it's more aesthetic. The CF will do actinic fine. I think most people like the 460 nm.

and I think you can often find people to trade about. One halide with the PCs supplementing it might be alright, you'd have to ask around, I have no experience with MH.

[curlyq]

I just found out more about the T5's. They are 2x39W 36". Here's the link to them:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1126986
39W sounds a little low though, how does the output ofthe T5 compare to other lights. Will this be enough?

[spsick]

like david and I were saying, 2 wont be enough, you'll need 3 or 4, but yes their wattage is sufficient( if you have 3 or 4)
check out the t5 retro kits at www.hellolights.com
like $100

[David Grigor]

50 bucks is a good deal. Ballast alone new is $39.

Those are Tek reflectors which aren't the greatest ( about 25% less output than icecap reflectors ) and should upgrade to icecap reflectors at some point ( Tek will likely be just fine to get you started ). But I'd replace the reflectors before adding more bulbs if light isn't enough as there is no electricity increase involved to do so.

2 bulbs isn't enough ( 1 day and 1 actinic ). You really need at least 2 daylight T5 bulbs on the tank. So 3 bulb would be the minimum I would do and is what I run on my frag tank that's loaded with acros.

Trust me. You can't compare one type of lighting to another just by watts. Remeber watts is an input not an output. Reason why T5s are so much better then PC is because the reflector can send virtual all the light directly to the tank. PC lighting there is considerable amount of light restrike that never reaches the tank.

I'd take 3 X 39W over a 2X96W PC any day of the week. You can't get near the intensity of light from the PCs as you can those T5s. while it may not sound like it judging by watts it is an upgrade to what you have.

[David Grigor]

Oh and forgot on more key component. T5s are very sensitive to heat and effects light output more than any other flourescent bulb so you will need to fans blowing across the bulbs the get maximum output. Fans alone will increase output by 20%. I measure 14% increase and that was with fans in the back of the hood not across the bulbs lengthwise. Jason got over 20% with his fans positions correctly.

[curlyq]

That's good to know about the fans...Thanks for the help everyone. I think I'm going to go for the 2xT5's to help out my 2X96 CFL, and upgrade from there. I'll put daylight in the T5's, and maybe 1 more 10K in the CFL and 1 actinic. Thanks again, and Wes, until those LED's come into my price range I'm out of luck on those.

[David Grigor]

If you keep yours and add the T5s and you need to replace bulbs anyway. Use the T5s for the days and use the CF for the actinics. You want the added intensity of the T5s over using CF for a daylight bulbs. Putting in a new 10K CF is a waste.

[David Grigor]

Oh but that probably won't work well since likely the 2X96 can't be seperated and that would mean the days wouldn't be positioned well.

Since your getting a good deal on the T5s, I'd go ahead and get the other endcap/reflector/ballast to run all T5s and just sell the PCs for whatever you can get for them to help offset the cost. I'd hate to see you invest any more money on bulbs for the PCs just to keep them running because that's $40 more that could be put towards anther T5 setup, not to mention 200W of electricity to run them.

[curlyq]

couldn't the days be put outside the actinics? what's the best way to arrange the different colors?

as a side note, I'm going to have a 30g cube fuge displayed right next to the main display tank. Should I attempt to match lights? (T5 - T5) or would it look odd to have differnet styles of lights side-by-side?

[David Grigor]

Oh and BTW, I have 2 36" Tek reflectors that I have no intention of using that you can have. So you would just need another ballast $39, and waterproof endcaps $15, and of course new bulb to replace the PC setup altogher vs. buying new bulbs for it.

[reeftanktime]

I like the 1X400 single end MH on my 58. I previously had 1x250 DE MH on it and I did not like the spread of light as much as the SE.

I'm sure you will like whatever you do much better than the PC's. I started with 2x96w pc also.

[wes]

heh, I'm just jokin' about the LEDs, I know you're on a budget, though not quite as strict as mine...:mad:

I don't pay utilities so I don't mind running watts, though I guess I ought to for the 'vironment. I replaced all the incandescent bulbs in my house with CF, though. I hope no one comes over and tells me my place is not getting the color it would with upgraded lights. :gay1:

[storrisch]

couldn't the days be put outside the actinics? what's the best way to arrange the different colors?

as a side note, I'm going to have a 30g cube fuge displayed right next to the main display tank. Should I attempt to match lights? (T5 - T5) or would it look odd to have differnet styles of lights side-by-side?

I would use the CF lights over the fuge.

[David Grigor]

Should I attempt to match lights? (T5 - T5) or would it look odd to have differnet styles of lights side-by-side?

I don't think that is going to be an option. 30cube isn't 24" long which is the shortest t5 HO available. So your lights would be sticking off the ends. Since refuge will likely be off when the show tank is on and vice-versa it shouldn't matter. Do what will make the macro grow faster !!!!

[wolmutt]

you don't need strong lighting for the fuge so power compact would work fine. I have the coralife 65 watt fixture on mine with one 65 watt 10,000k/actinic bulb, brand new the fixture runs around $50 online. go with what David suggests, he is a T5 guru.

[curlyq]

I think I will be going with 4 T5 lights on the display. I have a little work left to get everything, but I like the idea of lower wattage. Lower watts = less $$ to the elec. company. Thanks for everyone's help with my little lighting problem....Wes, I may have a fixture for sale sometime here now :)