Where to drill?

[hamdogg08]

I'm going to be drilling a ten gallon in the near future and I'm doing a DIY overflow like the one shown here:http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/edkruzel/Picture059.jpg Where would I want to punch the hole. The top, bottom, or middle? Maybe It doesn't matter, but I figured I'd ask before I went crazy. Maybe 2 holes just in case one gets plugged? (Yeah, I read your redundancy article, David!:tongue: ) The only drawback I can think of is that I already want 2 returns also, and I think that 4 holes in the tank might be pushing it.

[MNGold15]

I would drill it in the bottom if you can. Have you drilled glass before? Drilling a 10 gallon is very difficult IMO. If you are just going to use vinal tubing, why not skip the hole for the return and hang a return over the side. when you drill 2 holes in the same pane of glass, you have a very high chance of cracking the glass. I would only drill 1 for the overflow, and have returns hanging on the back since it is such a small tank=very thin glass. Just my $.02

[hamdogg08]

If you are just going to use vinal tubing, why not skip the hole for the return and hang a return over the side.

Maybe I'll try that. I just won't want to have things hanging off the tank. If those return holes are going to be a problem, I may explore other options however.

[MNGold15]

Hang them so they run behind the overflow. and then turn them out from the overflow. You wont even realize they are there.

[hamdogg08]

Hang them so they run behind the overflow. and then turn them out from the overflow. You wont even realize they are there.

:idea: I could punch 2 holes on that PVC for the overflow and run the lines from there! That would save the nerve-shattering experience of having to drill those holes too.


I was looking on the TOTM from...June? at reefcentral, and they used this pond foam on the back of their tank as kind of a backdrop. After the algae was allover, it looked pretty cool. This way I could use some silicone or something to keep the returns in place and still not have it look like trash.

How big of a hole should I use? 1'' would be big enough, wouldn't it?

[Goldpony75]

I would drill it in the bottom if you can. Have you drilled glass before? Drilling a 10 gallon is very difficult IMO. If you are just going to use vinal tubing, why not skip the hole for the return and hang a return over the side. when you drill 2 holes in the same pane of glass, you have a very high chance of cracking the glass. I would only drill 1 for the overflow, and have returns hanging on the back since it is such a small tank=very thin glass. Just my $.02
Agree!:biggthumpup:

[storrisch]

if you want a 10 drilled shoot me a PM I have drilled at least 15 of them by now. I dont see a problem with 2 holes at all as long as they're are at least 3 inches apart since the glass is so thin. You would need a pretty good size overflow to be able to fit 2 intakes that far apart though. I also agree with putting the returns over the back.

[hamdogg08]

I think that I'm going to try drilling for the returns. I thought about it, and I'd only be down ten bucks if I mess it up. If it works, awesome, If it doesn't, I'll go back and get another tank, punch a single hole into it, and do a DIY overhang with 3 90 Degree pieces of PVC. for the overhang return

[MNGold15]

Good Luck!

[hamdogg08]

Thanks, I'll need it. Go big or go home, right!?
...Or is that better safe than sorry...

[MNGold15]

Go big? lol that seems kinda funny since it is a 10 gal. But yea, do you have any experience drilling glass?

[wes]

seems like there might be a cheap acrylic option since you're going so small and don't have the tank yet. then drilling is a piece of cake.

[David Grigor]

Here the cons as I have experienced when I drilled returns for the 320g tank and regretted it and will never do it again.

A. It's permanent. If can't decide later to move them or to reconfigure.
b. Even if you drill the hole as high up as you can, the water will drain down to the bottom of the hole. In a power outage, that can reduce you water level lower than over the back where you can drill a back siphon hole and not really lower the water level much at all. Also need to account for that water rise in your sump. Some will say well I'll just put a check valve on it. Larger diameter check valves can get pricey and there is no guarantee that it will shut. Over time, deposits and stuff and cause it to stick. I wouldn't trust one.
C. More holes you drill the more chance of cracking. 10g can be tricky. IME: Much harder to drill than even a 20g where the glass is a bit thicker.

[MNGold15]

Good idea Wes. I would shoot JG24 (Bob from Reef Mania) a pm and ask him if he can make you a 10 gal out of acrylic. IMO drilling more than one hole in a 10 is asking for trouble. Acrylic may be a bit more expensive, but I would bet your odds of drilling a 10 twice without cracking it will be VERY low.

[sea monkey]

10g is drasticly harder than larger tanks ...

let us know how it works out : )

[Goldpony75]

10g is drasticly harder than larger tanks ...

let us know how it works out : )
From what i understand the glass of a 10 gallon is what they call your double strength glass basicly what your non-tempered windows are made of, where your larger tanks you start getting into plate glass which in reality is softer(not as brittle) then double strength. thats what i was told by our glass/mirror company.

[David Grigor]

I think people have better success drilling 10g tank with the hand dremel bits vs. the diamond hole saws. I guessing becuase not as much pressure/weight on the glass while drilling. I just don't think I have the patience to do it by hand.

[sea monkey]

I think people have better success drilling 10g tank with the hand dremel bits vs. the diamond hole saws. I guessing becuase not as much pressure/weight on the glass while drilling. I just don't think I have the patience to do it by hand.


I had two small tanks around here and we tried with a hole saw and we broke every pane trying .... Then we made Swiss cheese out of the 29 , it was incredibly easy

[storrisch]

I have only drilled them with a dremel. I definately think a hole saw would have too much torque for such thin glass.

I have drilled 2.5's, 5's, 10's and 20's. 20's take forever with a dremel and I dont think I would go that route again unless I was being paid this time.

[hamdogg08]

I can't really decide on what to do for sure. The stand that I was planning on using is 25" long and about 15" wide.

Q:What is 24x13?
A:A 20g!

How hard would it be to put 2-3 holes into the 20?

[mtfatwork]

I can't really decide on what to do for sure. The stand that I was planning on using is 25" long and about 15" wide.

Q:What is 24x13?
A:A 20g!

How hard would it be to put 2-3 holes into the 20?

The more holes you put in a payne of glass, the more you compromise the integrity of the glass. So yo need to be carefull :)

[storrisch]

I can't really decide on what to do for sure. The stand that I was planning on using is 25" long and about 15" wide.

Q:What is 24x13?
A:A 20g!

How hard would it be to put 2-3 holes into the 20?

I think I could do 3 spaced out holes in a 20H....

[morty]

I've drilled lots of smaller tanks (5.5s, 10s, 20s) using a diamond hole bit, never a broken tank, so it can be done. Trick is good lube (antifreeze), slow pressure, and slowish drill speed.

One thought for that 10g is to drill two holes in the overflow, one towards the bottom for the main drain, and one a couple inches higher for an emergency drain. This lets you put a gate valve on the main drain and adjust it so it's perfectly silent. If the valve gets clogged for any reason, the water just goes higher in the overflow and begins flowing down the emergency drain. I'd use 1" bulkheads (1-3/4" holes).

Then I'd do like others are suggesting and just run the return line over the top of the tank.

If you do end up breaking the tank and have to try again, I'd consider making the teeth a little longer on the overflow on your 2nd try. They look like they might not be deep enough. (If you want help drilling the tank just send a PM. Good luck!)

[hamdogg08]

I'm looking into the prices on acrylic tanks as well as 20's right now. I think that I'll have an idea on what I want to do by the end of the week though. I ordered a 45mm diamond hole saw off the internet about a week ago, and after it gets here, there's a cracked 10g that I'm going to try putting a hole through. After I see how that goes, I'll be able to have a better idea on what I want to do.

[morty]

btw - if you do the two-drain thing with the gate valve, the valve should be at the end of the pipe near the sump to make the drain pipe silent (no trickling noises) & don't confuse this with using a durso, which gets rid of gurgling noises, but doesn't get rid of trickling noises :) Also a durso isn't needed if you use the valve.

[REEFSTOCK]

I imagin a hole saw would be easier than a high-speed-rotery. But, yes leaning into it will crack it... but if your fat and have a bad back... you might put your hand through one forgetting and leaning into a 10g tank using a dremmel... twice in a row... just making this up you know...

[hamdogg08]

I imagin a hole saw would be easier than a high-speed-rotery. But, yes leaning into it will crack it... but if your fat and have a bad back... you might put your hand through one forgetting and leaning into a 10g tank using a dremmel... twice in a row... just making this up you know...

:laugh: We'll see how it goes. This is one giant science experiment:book2:

[hamdogg08]

btw - if you do the two-drain thing with the gate valve, the valve should be at the end of the pipe near the sump to make the drain pipe silent (no trickling noises) & don't confuse this with using a durso, which gets rid of gurgling noises, but doesn't get rid of trickling noises :) Also a durso isn't needed if you use the valve.

I'm sure that I'll be sending you some pm's regarding this strategy once I'm ready to start plumbing. I like the idea of the overflow running as silent as possable since the tank's in my bedroom. I already learned the hard way after I bought that D@m^ skilter!:doh:

[morty]

You will absolutely need to make two holes in the tank inside the overflow if you decide you want to do this. They allow for two drain lines to the sump. One is the normal drain, with the gate valve at the end for silencing it, and the other is the emergency drain in case the gate valve clogs. The emergency drain usually has a stand pipe inside the overflow, just lower than the top of the overflow, into which the water will run if/when the normal drain line clogs.

[hamdogg08]

Are there any options for doing some kinda of lamination that would strengthen the tank? I remember in 8th grade my teacher took a cigarette and snapped it half. He then took it and wrapped it tightly in a layer syran wrap and it could bend allover the place. I'm not looking to roll the tank into a circle or anything, but it seems like this could stop it from cracking. I was thinking about maybe covering the entire back of the tank with duct tape, holding the glass together a bit more and maybe preventing cracking. I thought this could transfer the energy through the glass a bit better. I'm planning on putting some pond foam on the back of the tank so the tape wouldn't even be visible. (tape on OUTSIDE of tank only of course)

[hamdogg08]

You will absolutely need to make two holes in the tank inside the overflow if you decide you want to do this. They allow for two drain lines to the sump. One is the normal drain, with the gate valve at the end for silencing it, and the other is the emergency drain in case the gate valve clogs. The emergency drain usually has a stand pipe inside the overflow, just lower than the top of the overflow, into which the water will run if/when the normal drain line clogs.

If I went with an acrylic 20 gal, would I be able to put 4 holes into it (2 for the overflow and 2 for returns)? I'm really adamant about drilling for the returns. I just think it looks a lot better than going over the back

[morty]

With acrylic you could turn it into swiss cheese if you wanted. Remember that if you want holes for the returns, like DG said you will want them near the top (or will need a loop with a hole that runs near the top) to act as a siphon break.

[hamdogg08]

With acrylic you could turn it into swiss cheese if you wanted. Remember that if you want holes for the returns, like DG said you will want them near the top (or will need a loop with a hole that runs near the top) to act as a siphon break.

I'll put it as close to the top as I can.

Well, I guess that I've made my decision. I'm probably going to go with a 20 gal acrylic tank. How did my little ten dollar tank get so expensive! Would I drill the acrylic with just a normal hole saw or what? I already got a hole saw and the diamond tipped one is on the way, so I assume that I have the tools to do the job.

[wes]

not too long ago someone was selling a bunch of sea clear acrylic tanks. you should try to find one of those.

[mtfatwork]

acrylic can be drilled with a normal hole saw :)

[Dhummel]

I'm going to be drilling a ten gallon in the near future and I'm doing a DIY overflow like the one shown here:http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/edkruzel/Picture059.jpg Where would I want to punch the hole. The top, bottom, or middle? Maybe It doesn't matter, but I figured I'd ask before I went crazy. Maybe 2 holes just in case one gets plugged? (Yeah, I read your redundancy article, David!:tongue: ) The only drawback I can think of is that I already want 2 returns also, and I think that 4 holes in the tank might be pushing it.

i did this exact setup in my 20 gallon high, i used 6" pvc for the overflow, i had the tank drilled in the bottom, works great, just took a while to get rid of the girguling noise.