t5 discussion

[spsick]

So what the heck I ask you guys all these questions about t5's, and now after initial setup I find out all the different things about them?:lol_hitting:

Anyways so how much of a cut in lifespan are we talking about running them on a icecap? other caveats of overdriving? so they run hotter and at 85w instead of 54 from what I gather, with that am I getting a worthwhile gain in output?

What other options for ballasts are there? Is advance the only standard t5 ballast that's t5 specific? I've done some looking and it's all i've seen[ besides the icecap and workhorse(which is crappy i hear?)].

Anything else I should know? Suggestions on bulb setups for supplement to either 175w xm10k or iwasaki 15k ( I have a blue+ and a UV super actinic and intend to add 2 more).

Ben

[Turf]

www.ballastwise.com (http://www.ballastwise.com) is where I got mine from... apparently there has been a surge of people asking for them as when I bot my two last year which both run 2x4' bulbs it was a total of $25 shipped and now they are asking 20-30 per ballast. Anyway, for the little time I've run mine I've been happy.

[spsick]

www.ballastwise.com (http://www.ballastwise.com) is where I got mine from... apparently there has been a surge of people asking for them as when I bot my two last year which both run 2x4' bulbs it was a total of $25 shipped and now they are asking 20-30 per ballast. Anyway, for the little time I've run mine I've been happy.

interesting, good prices, are they good ballasts? I see they have MH as well.

[patent]

Reefgeek has the ballasts I liked. You can get cheaper, but they have end of life protection, etc.

I personally don't figure that overdriving is worth it unless you really need the punch. I doubt you do.

patent

[Turf]

I couldn't tell you on the quality... I bot them last year but I've only just begun to use them.

[mattb]

Ice Caps are the only T5 ballast that overdrive the bulbs. They are brighter and a little hotter, but no where near halides. I have a Solar Flare sitting on top of one of my tanks, 6 bulbs on Ice Cap. There is a drop off at around 9 months, Iwan recommends replacing them then. Many other sps-centric recommend replacing around 9 months.

The other thing is reflectors, and Ice Cap SLRs right now are the best, I hear the Tek2 are pretty good too. As far as MH, you can't go wrong with the new Iwasakis 175w 15ks...

[spsick]

anthing to add david?

[David Grigor]

Here are the ballasts I'm aware of, I'm sure there are many more:

Universal Triad Model # B254punv-d ( 54w only
Universal Triad Model #B239PUNV-D ( for 24w & 39w )
Advance model ICN 2s54 ( 54W only )
Advance ICN 2s39 ( for 24w & 39w )
Dynamic ( don't know the model number. Distributed by Icecap. 54w only )
Workhorse
Icecap 660/430
Ballastwise also makes a t5ho ballast ( but they charge a high shipping/handling charge per ballast that doesn't really make them much cheaper )

The Univeral/Advance/Ballaswise/Dynamic t5ho spec. ballasts do get hot. I have been told best to avoid the 4bulb ballast as more likely to fail from the heat. I never stopped to notice until I was told about it and sure enough you put the palm of your hand on them and quite hot. I think all spec. ballast would benefit by making a heat sink of some sorts to mount them to help prevent premature ballast failures.

Operating temps of the bulbs also play a big role on output. Fans blowing across the bulbs that Jason tested with a lux meter gained 22% output than without. I did the same test but my fans were blowing from the back and got 14% gain. So active cooling and position of fans should not be ignored. In addition to reflector design good active ventalation with fans designed such as with aquaactinic and solar flare really set them apart from tek for example that just uses passive. When looking for max output this is just as important of a factor as the reflector. When overdriving this is even more important to get max out of overdriving the bulbs.

End of life detection is desirable. The ones mentioned only workhorse does not have that feature. Ballastwise also makes a cheaper one that doesn't have it but their programmed start ballasts do.

Programmed start is supposed to be easier on the bulbs than instant start ( Workhorse ). Likely we replace the bulbs long before it really would matter anyways.

Bulb life is highly debatable as to if anything is really gained by programmed start vs. instant start.

I've used Icecap ballasts with T5 ( for a 14month period ) and honestly I don't see a big enough benefit to spend the additional money on the ballast if you don't already own one. I've gotten such good performance from normally driven bulbs that I don't really see a need to overdrive and use more electricity. I don't keep clams ( never cared for them and you can't frag them when they get big ) and I don't run deep tanks. I do put my money where my mouth is, I owned more than 6 Icecap 660/430 ballasts at one time and have sold all of them now that I run T5s exclusively on my tanks. I just don't see myself going back to vhos and not my ballast of choice for T5s.

I have never run T5s as supplementals to MH. I'd be real concerned though that the heat from the MH is going to have a negative impact on the T5 output. Likely not going to be much gain by overdriving becuase of this.

As far as bulb choice, most of it all boils down to personal tastes of whether you like blue bulbs or actinic bulbs etc. and how your corals respond. Since everyone has different tank conditions and different mix of corals it's basically just have to figure on playing with a few bulbs until you find what works for you. I personally found UVL Actinic/whites and UVL superactinics to be my bulbs of choice. I like to run at least 1 more actinc/white than actinics. Doing say even number of the bulbs it too purple of a tank for my liking.

[mattb]

Holy ballasts Batman...

Yeah, the heat from the halides are big. I have 3 x 250w hqi with 2 x 54 T5 in an enclosed fixtures and even with two larger fans its hot. I've had bulbs go bad in it. Incidentally, I've replaced this with a Solar Flare all T5 fixture. ( Sick of waiting for an ATI Power Module)

Ben your hood is more open than mine so a couple of fans which I believe you have should be fine.

[aka_BigRed]

I'm running a Universal Triad and an Advance ballast (not sure on model numbers of mine), and the ballasts do get HOT! I've never run an IC so can't really compare it, but even with 2 80mm fans circulating in my hood the ballast is still toasty hot to the touch.

They seem hotter than the workhorse ballasts I ran for a while. I've got some heatsinks on order to attach to them to cool them better, which I'd recommend to anyone.

Bulb life so far seems about the same with the instant vs programmed start, but that's just my opinion without a PAR/LUX meter to verify.

[civil]

So it seems like a wash between the Advance or Universal ballasts. I am in the process of setting up a 48" 6 bulb fixture and still need to get the ballasts so any strong recommendations are welcome.

Big Red where were you able to find heatsinks?

The other question I had was fans. My hope is to build a canopy with a shield to prevent any salt spray from collecting on the reflectors. I'm debating what type and how many fans I need. They need to be quiet but move enough air to keep bulb output and life at good levels.

[sea monkey]

I also wouldn't bother over driving them.

I personally didn't like the 4 bulb ballasts because they got so hot and when something went wrong there was just too damn connections to check. I would personally pay extra to get a kit with a wiring harness .

[David Grigor]

Dan, I'm very pleased with the house brand of fans from MicroCenter in St.LouisPark. They go by Ultra, I use the 3" ones very quiet and do a good job. $5.99 each.

I consider the Advance and Universal both to be equal and what I would choose. Universal is probably the more common amoung fish sites but both can be had easily by going to a lighting specialty store and ordering them.

Just to reiterate, all the ballast could use a heatsink. Even the 2 bulb ones get pretty hot to the touch. While I don't know how effecient it will be, I'm planning to just make a hink sink from aluminum flashing at HD since I think I still have a big roll of it in the garage.

[mattb]

If you're keeping sps dominant/clams, IMHO overdriving is worth the extra $$$. You should be fine with the bulbs around 9-12 months... If you are doing a community, it's not. I think it's the same with reflectors, if you are keeping sps dominant/clams, the extra price for good reflectors are worth the extra $$$....

[superman]

I have 8 overdriven HOT5 bulbs on my 150 gallon tall. I chose to overdrive these bulbs so that I could have the extra punch to get down through the extra tall (~31") tall aquarium. I just set up the tank, but so far I am very impressed with the intensity of these T5 bulbs withe the ice cap ballasts and reflectors. I have 4 crocea clams, some of which are low in the tank, and will be stocking the tank with SPS and LPS, we'll see how these lights fare. The Ice Cap ballasts are running just warm, the heat sinks do quite a good job. I also chose Ice Cap because of their great customer service and ease of any needed fixes.

[sea monkey]

If you're keeping sps dominant/clams, IMHO overdriving is worth the extra $$$.

granted it is possible my tank may do even better with overdriven bulbs but I run normally driven T'5s and my clams and SPS thrive in a 24" deap tank.

To be honest i wish most of the corals growth would slow down because all they do now is grow into each other and give me more work to do: (

If i had a (~31") tall aquarium like above i would certainly think about it.

[spsick]

yeah ryan, I forgot to mention the excellent growth you have, very even, which you usually only see in wild corals, you must be doin somethin right!

[civil]

It would be interesting to measure the PAR at different depth with a standard ballast and the Ice Cap.

Not sure overdriving the bulbs relates to higher PAR? It may save some people some money.

[mattb]

It does result in more PAR there'd be no reason to do so otherwise...

Touche Ryan... :) How many bulbs over your 24" deep?

[sea monkey]

It does result in more PAR there'd be no reason to do so otherwise...

Touche Ryan... :) How many bulbs over your 24" deep?

8 bulbs. Just because i already owned the fixture. If i were buying one now it would be 6 bulbs.

Although i do like the 3 to 5 actinic /white bulb ratio . 50/50 seems too much and 25/75 doesn't seem to be enough ... maybe i would still get the 8 bulbs : )

[mattb]

Well, we're running about the same watts, 6 x 80ish... I do like more bulbs too... I'm running (not to hijack) one of everything it seems....
1 GE 3k, 1 ATI Aquablue, 1 ATI Blue+, 1 KZ Coral Light (similar to ATI Aquablue but with a red spike), 1 KZ Fiji Purple ( I don't know what to call it...), 1 UVL Super Actinic. To me it seems around 12k in appearance, if I pulled the GE 3K and put another Aquabulb it'dbe a bit too blue.... I really wanted 8 for this Aquactinics wouldn't make me a custom, and I've been on the waitlist for the ATI PowerMOdule 10 bulb fixture for about 5 months.....

[sea monkey]

I do think the outside two bulbs are kind of a waste on my 18" wide tank.

The thing I do like about the normally driven bulbs is there seem to be no issues with LPS. I have not witnessed this but i have heard that LPS does very poorly under over driven T5's , even more so high up.

/shrug ,

[mattb]

Got any pics?

I can't say too much about LPS either... I have a frogspawn (from Mary), and a micro (from Jerry), but they are both just off the bottom. I have had most of my sps lighten occur when I first switched over to T5s, but I was dosing vodka pretty hard too so I can't say which was the root cause....