View Full Version : Buffering
RogersCG
10-18-2007, 01:36 PM
What products to people typically use to buffer their RO/DI water for top offs and for water changes? Do you use a particular product to bring the PH up? I know there has to be many different methods employed, I'm just curious what others do.
patent
10-18-2007, 01:38 PM
Kalk.
David Grigor
10-18-2007, 01:52 PM
Nothing should be needed.
Most major salts are designed to be mixed with RO/DI.
Some will add Kalkwasser to topoff as a supplement for CA/ALk and increasing PH (temporarily ) by reacting with CO2 in your tank water. However, that's all short term as CO2 levels will eventually stabilize back to match the atmosphere.
Assuming your Ca, Alk, Mg parameters are in check, if your having PH issues then it's releated to CO2 levels.
RogersCG
10-18-2007, 02:55 PM
My PH seems to remain steady at 8.3. I am dosing with B-Ionic 2 part daily. I've been adding slightly more CA to bring my calcium levels up a bit, Alk is good if not a little high (13 dKH). CA was about 380 when I started a week ago, about 420 now (I'll test again tonight). Mg I need to test again but it was good last week also. I am adding straight temperature matched RO/DI for top off. I don't need to worry about bringing up the PH of the top off water to match the tank then?
I am planning on switching to twopartsolution's system once I get my larger tank up and running, by the way.
Taklu
10-18-2007, 03:08 PM
Besides being uneconomical any other reason switching the B-Ionic for twopart?
B-Ionic is more expensive. But I think it has the Magesium. built into the solution which is kind of nice.
RogersCG
10-18-2007, 03:14 PM
Besides being uneconomical any other reason switching the B-Ionic for twopart?
From what I understand they are pretty much the same thing so it's just economics. The B-Ionic seems to work just fine and this is a small tank.
David Grigor
10-18-2007, 03:58 PM
I am adding straight temperature matched RO/DI for top off. I don't need to worry about bringing up the PH of the top off water to match the tank then?
No. What you doing is more than fine. I use an auto topoff method where I'm adding small increments. If your adding larger increments and once and is a small volumne of water, temperature matching could never hurt but I really don't know any people that go to that kind trouble. Room temperature is all.
Zibba
10-18-2007, 04:59 PM
No. What you doing is more than fine. I use an auto topoff method where I'm adding small increments. If your adding larger increments and once and is a small volumne of water, temperature matching could never hurt but I really don't know any people that go to that kind trouble. Room temperature is all.
David,
Do you use kalk in your ato? Or just straight ro/di? I stopped using kalk in my ato and I've just been dosing twopart for a few reasons: (1) I did not have any method to control overdosing of the kalk and (2) I was making up 5 gallons of kalkwasser 2-3 days to replace what was evaporating and it was just too much work.
David Grigor
10-18-2007, 05:21 PM
Normally I do use Kalkwasser and for sure do it during the winter when co2 levels rise in the house. I took my litermeter offline to send in to get the lcd panel replaced ( some of the pixels are out on the digits making it hard to read ) but haven't got off my lazy but to take it to ship it. Both my other tanks I use Kalkwasser for all topoff and will continue to do so on all my future tanks as well. It's a mainstay for me.
On all my tanks, I have topoff/Kalkwasser only doses at night with several redundancy plans in place. It only runs 1 minute on 3 minutes off using a dosing pump so that it will only add X amount per day. Also controlled by AC. Jr. to turn off if PH is above 8.5.
Kalkwasser does not add any time to my schedule. I literally just dump in about a 1/4 cup of kalkwasser into the topoff bucket before every refill. The pouring of ro/di into the bucket mixes it up and I'm done until the next refill which is about 3-4 days.
Zibba
10-18-2007, 05:43 PM
Maybe I was working at the whole kalkwasser thing too much. I top off from a 5-gallon bucket, but I would usually mix the kalk in a separate 5-gallon bucket in the garage, let that sit overnight and then replace the buckets every 2-3 days. This got to be a pain when I could just add straight ro/di water to the bucket that was already in place - so I stopped. It seems like I could continue to dose kalk with my current method but just adding the kalk directly to the bucket that is already "online". Unfortunately, I don't have an AC jr. to control when the kalk would dose or to turn off the dosing if the pH gets too high. I think it is best to hold off on the kalk dosing until I can afford that piece of mind (or equipment rather).
David Grigor
10-18-2007, 05:51 PM
Rarely is the high ph thing the issue especially during the winter, I've done so without ph controller for many years since I have it might as well use it. As long as your topoff of is limited in gallons and what ever pump you use is slow enough that if it were to stick on your ph wouldn't spike to dangerous levels then your covered. Having said the more redundancy is always better.
spectrum
10-18-2007, 06:51 PM
I THINK i read thatif you oxygenate the water first it helps with the ph swing and dont laught too much i can read
(huked on fnix wrked fer me)
FYI, B-Ionic doesn't have Magnesium in it. I received some bad information. Not sure how its any better.
B-Ionic is more expensive. But I think it has the Magesium. built into the solution which is kind of nice.
coralreefer
10-18-2007, 10:07 PM
I take a little different approach. I drip kalkwasser at night. I also add buffer in my top off water to make up for alkalinity. I usually use non-pH buffer but I have found that a little pH buffer makes daily top-offs less stressful on my sps.
RogersCG
10-18-2007, 10:19 PM
FYI, B-Ionic doesn't have Magnesium in it. I received some bad information. Not sure how its any better.
Reading the back of the Component #2 bottle it says:
Ionic Contents: Chloride, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Bromide, Strontium, Lithium, Barium, Rubidium, Iron, Zinc, Nickel, Copper, Manganese, Cobalt, Chromium.
Bottle #1 is:
Carbonate, Sodium, Bicarbonate, Sulfate, Borate, Fluoride, Iodide, Molybdate, Vanadate, Selenate.
Chris
Man I should just stop asking people at the reef stores. I just asked someone today. Thats pretty cool then.
Reading the back of the Component #2 bottle it says:
Ionic Contents: Chloride, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Bromide, Strontium, Lithium, Barium, Rubidium, Iron, Zinc, Nickel, Copper, Manganese, Cobalt, Chromium.
Bottle #1 is:
Carbonate, Sodium, Bicarbonate, Sulfate, Borate, Fluoride, Iodide, Molybdate, Vanadate, Selenate.
Chris
Goldpony75
10-18-2007, 10:31 PM
that seems kind of interesting.
Reading the back of the Component #2 bottle it says:
Ionic Contents: Chloride, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Bromide, Strontium, Lithium, Barium, Rubidium, Iron, Zinc, Nickel, Copper, Manganese, Cobalt, Chromium.
Bottle #1 is:
Carbonate, Sodium, Bicarbonate, Sulfate, Borate, Fluoride, Iodide, Molybdate, Vanadate, Selenate.
Chris
RogersCG
10-18-2007, 10:35 PM
I was thinking the same thing....
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