Availability of large quantities of live sand and rock in the Twin Cities area...

[wkjames]

I am setting up a 210 gallon, 24 X 24 X 84. I need to buy 340 pounds of live sand, and I want some live rock (200 pounds) for my new tank. I'm hoping for a 4" sand bed and enough live rock to avoid having to do much beyond skimming and a magnum for filtration. Looking around the metro I've found sand for what I perceive to be the best bargain at Petland for $12 to $15 per 10 pounds. On eBay I've found what appears to be much more fresh for:
$93 per 50 pounds from reefsupplies / Oceanpro Aquatics
$28.90 for 30 pounds from Fijisandman
$27.90 for 30 pounds from Reefsandman

Other online suppliers I've found seem to be worse.
I don't plan to worry too much about the live rock, I plan to buy it over time, as the cash outlay for this new tank has been huge. Please make any relavant recommendations you have. Is there anyone in town who cultures lg. quantities of sand? Should I plan a costal vacation and bring a couple of coolers and a shovel? Help! The eventual plan is a mixed tank - fish vs. corals probably with a heavier weight to fish.

One other question I have is how many watts of light (flourescent) do I need for a tank of this size? Is there an equation I should know? I have 160 watts. Do I need more? I have no specific plan for coral livestock.

This upgrade from 30 to 210 is going to be fun.
K.

[Redwinger]

When I rip the sand out of the aquapod it is all yours. It is good and live now. Probably about 40-50 pounds.

[wkjames]

Thanks, that will be a great start. Email me, and I'll do what ever I can to make it as easy as I can. I really appreciate your generous offer.
K.

[smeese]

PM Zekester he is doing a Live rock order tomorrow.

[Zekester]

Yes I am
shoot me a PM with type your looking for....

[JnS]

IMO the rock will seed the sand over time so no real reason to buy live sand.

[Chad Vossen]

i have a 5 gallon bucket of live sand (recycled sandbed) up for grabs, i have someone who is interested but if they back out, i can let you know.

[wkjames]

The problem with letting the rock seed the sand is the order I have to do things in. I need to set up a sand bed first, then over time add the rock. Also, aragonite sand/crushed coral is pretty expensive, even dry. Most of the LFS are still around a dollar a pound, and with the live sand being that close, I thought it would b better to go that route, and hope for some copepods, etc. so I can begin adding life to the tank sooner.
K.

[David Grigor]

I personally wouldn't get worked up at all on finding Live sand. Just get the dry stuff and maybe a few pounds from locals to put on top. It will seed eventually on it own from the Liverock. I wouldn't pay extra for Live sand.

[David Grigor]

You only need the biological for now. Which you can add a bag or so of the argo live initially to help seed. Plus a few pounds being offered eariler is fine to start seeding with.

As far as lighting not all flourescents are equal. 160W doesn't really tell me much. Is this VHOs, Compact Flourescents or T5s. A 210 will have it's challenges with any flourescents when it is so tall. IMO: T5s with quality reflectors will be a must.

[wkjames]

FWIW, thanks so much for all of the advice, I think this is the best aquarium forum out there, I'm so lucky its also local.

My aquarium came with 4 of these:
http://ecom.mysylvania.com/sylvaniab2c/b2c/z_login.do;jsessionid=(J2EE4080100)ID4080150DB1376 622531647026090End;saplb_*=(J2EE4080100)4080150
The lights have excellent (mirror like) reflectors, and seem really bright. (what do I know?)
I bought mirrored window tinting to mirror the back of the tank to hopefully keep it a little brighter and still hide the plumbing behind the tank. I would like to eventually purchase something better, but for now...

BTW, has anyone got experience with LED lights and the possibility of using them to light an aquarium either as a primary or supplamental light source?

K.

[David Grigor]

Compact flourescents would likely be fine to keep some coraline aglae color on the rocks for say a fish only but for reef tank lighting for corals not a very good choice for that size of tank. One of the real big problems with CF is the bent bulb is so close together that there is alot of light restrike, even with reflectors there is alot of restrike. The beauty of T5 is the linear bulb and the shape of the reflector eliminates virtually all restrike and 98% of the light produced is directed to the tank.

I'm sure say softies in the top half of the tank or so and other low light it may suffice but that's really about it. You likely will need a complete overhaul on lighting for a serious reef tank.

For LEDs, right now it is just too cost prohibitive for most people. Looking at over $3k in costs. Dirk Griffin, is the only local with PFO Solar fixtures so he would be the one to talk too.

T5s for sure would be necessary if you want to put corals on the bottom. But the problem with T5s will be that there isn't a 6' bulb available so it will take twice as many bulbs to light that length of tank problably around 12-16 bulbs total. 3X250W MH though is likely the best answer for both initial costs and bulb replacement costs for a 7' tank.

Frogbone did have a nice 180g LPS/Softy tank lit with 4X96W PC bulbs and 2X140W VHO actinics. So it is possible to reuse the PCs if you really wanted to a LPS/Softy reef tank. I personally wouldn't do it though.

[Zekester]

I got your PM and I'll get back to you this eavning or tom.