Just happened to stumble across this site

[Redwinger]

http://www.opportunitylost.org/

Pretty much confirms everything that I hinted upon awhile ago about it being utter BS:smile:

[sea monkey]

interesting to say the least : )

[mattb]

So you're thinking it's just a front for a commercial interest in Reef Savers? Interesting...

[Redwinger]

So you're thinking it's just a front for a commercial interest in Reef Savers? Interesting...

Nope the whole thing was a lie on his end. No one sabotaged his tank. There was no salinity drop. It was just a bunch of lies and cover ups.

[Redwinger]

for more info here is a link on some discussion on it.

http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97701

[kjdeut]

All you can say is WOW!

[Redwinger]

All you can say is WOW!


Now you can see why Graham and I had our reservations about going to watch him talk last year:wink:

[Irenicus]

All you can say is WOW!

This sums it up nicely.:coolmad:

[kjdeut]

Now you can see why Graham and I had our reservations about going to watch him talk last year:wink:

Yea I guess if I would have known all this was going on I might of have hesitated on going also. What a tangled mess.
Ken

[Otolith]

I will still try to reserve judgment about the whole ordeal, as there are far too many things that I don't know about, nor do I really care.

I do try to remember as well that it takes 2 to tango. : )

[John_Salmon]

good read, terrible outcome...

[coralreefer]

makes me want to give his book back

[Redwinger]

I will still try to reserve judgment about the whole ordeal, as there are far too many things that I don't know about, nor do I really care.

I do try to remember as well that it takes 2 to tango. : )

Care to elaborate on the second part of that:smile:

[JnS]

All you can say is WOW!

yea this is some nutty stuff :2gunsfiring:

[Otolith]

Care to elaborate on the second part of that:smile:
I guess I should say there are 2 sides to every story. But, I think someone else took down their tank around this time as well...

Again, I don't know enough nor care enough to pass judgment. :brainoverload:

[stuckey_t]

This really bums me out:confused: When I started reefing I got a lot out of Eric's book. When he was in town for the talk he seemed a genuine nice guy and definitely had a passion for the hobby. Hell, I even had him sign his book when he was here. Being a diver though, and having swam with a lot of those corals up close right next to where the military site is, i'm kinda in shock that something like this happened. Grabbing whole colonies for "research" and then having them chopped up for a profit seems analogous to graverobbery to me. I guess I never got into the political debates for/against various reefers and never really cared how people did this or that. What does burn my backside is the fact that natural reefs are in serious danger and if someone under their guise of research would actually steal corals and try to turn a profit. I hope this isn't the case but the email demanding the corals be returned is pretty convincing :(

[Redwinger]

I guess I should say there are 2 sides to every story. But, I think someone else took down their tank around this time as well...

Again, I don't know enough nor care enough to pass judgment. :brainoverload:

Correct, however it is up to you to decipher the truth out of it all.:wink:

[Frogbone]

These does seem like pretty crazy stuff. I don't know the guy enough to pass judgement based on an anonymous website. However, the e-mails do sound convincing. But then again, so did the Army Reserve papers that got published by Mr. Dan Rather himself and they turned out to be phoney.
So, until I see some definite facts from the NOAA or other official I'll remain on the fence. If it turns out the EB has done these things then the rath of the community will take it's course.

Well, good thing I am not sitting on the fence next to gregt and Spanky. They seem to be excited like giddy little school girls :(

[sea monkey]

I will still try to reserve judgment about the whole ordeal, as there are far too many things that I don't know about, nor do I really care.

I do try to remember as well that it takes 2 to tango. : )

I agree. you need to take everything you read on the net at face value, someone always has some sort of agenda for posting that kinda stuff. It is also never the full story, just the things that support whatever they are trying to convince you of with all the other facts conveniently left out.

I don't think hes an angle but everyone's ready to burn him alive the moment they see something like this. while this doesn't look good for him im sure this is about 5-10% of what really went on.

[JnS]

here is Eric's reply to this....
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic64492-9-1.aspx

[sea monkey]

lol that got locked quick : )

[Otolith]

So, until I see some definite facts from the NOAA or other official I'll remain on the fence. It's amazing how much you are the voice of reason at times. :beerchug:

Are we not forgetting that this is a hobby?!?!?! I know it's a life of work and a passion for some people, but it doesn't mean that you can't play nicely with one another. My goodness, people. :gay2:

[Frogbone]

It's amazing how much you are the voice of reason at times. :beerchug:

Are we not forgetting that this is a hobby?!?!?! I know it's a life of work and a passion for some people, but it doesn't mean that you can't play nicely with one another. My goodness, people. :gay2:


Hobby ? Yes. However these are serious accusations for what I believe to be criminal activity. That in and of itself elevates this incident and as far all I know could have some serious consequences not only for EB but for this very "Hobby" of ours. Therefore it can't just be brushed under the carpet and will be closely watched.

The discussion will go on and needs to go on but I think we all need to shy away from either crucifying the guy or absolve him until one knows for sure.

And thank you Derek.. I don't know what came over me :lol_hitting:

[Otolith]

Hobby ? Yes. However these are serious accusations for what I believe to be criminal activity. That in and of itself elevates this incident and as far all I know could have some serious consequences not only for EB but for this very "Hobby" of ours. Therefore it can't just be brushed under the carpet and will be closely watched.

The discussion will go on and needs to go on but I think we all need to shy away from either crucifying the guy or absolve him until one knows for sure.

And thank you Derek.. I don't know what came over me :lol_hitting:

There you go doing it again! :doh:

Are you going to the game tomorrow night?

[Redwinger]

Hobby ? Yes. However these are serious accusations for what I believe to be criminal activity. That in and of itself elevates this incident and as far all I know could have some serious consequences not only for EB but for this very "Hobby" of ours. Therefore it can't just be brushed under the carpet and will be closely watched.

The discussion will go on and needs to go on but I think we all need to shy away from either crucifying the guy or absolve him until one knows for sure.

And thank you Derek.. I don't know what came over me :lol_hitting:

Thats right the freedom of information act can be a beautiful thing.:wink: The truth is out there you just have to go look for it yourself:wink:

[REEFSTOCK]

Yes, but sometimes its just enough information to be DaNgerOus! lol

[Frogbone]

There you go doing it again! :doh:

Are you going to the game tomorrow night?

Yes Sir :beerchug: :icon_rock:

[Redwinger]

Well the site was updated today again it seems with more documents they received. Pretty easy to see what the intent was on this and from what I can tell his is going to be in some big trouble with the government. You don't want to piss off a government agency......

[sea monkey]

I didn't really follow the drama on RC that made these guys all leave RC but wasn't it something about EB calling the feds on some dude that had a tank full of corals from the caribbean ? I may be way off base on this : )

[Otolith]

If you're bored. :)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1081757&perpage=25&highlight=foia&pagenumber=1

[Redwinger]

I didn't really follow the drama on RC that made these guys all leave RC but wasn't it something about EB calling the feds on some dude that had a tank full of corals from the caribbean ? I may be way off base on this : )


Yes that is what was said. He commented on a thread on RC to bomber/spanky "nice Caribbean corals" Then the rumor was going around that spanky was in jail, this that and the other thing. Spanky had a permit for everything in his tank from what he told me.

[sea monkey]

Back in my everquest playing days i was absolutely amazed how much drama could be continually stirred up on the boards . If someone wasn't complaining about how so and so took my monster, some GM Banned me for no reason , it wasn't your guilds turn to take down dragon X , someone is hacking the data stream and cheating, your guild leader was selling the guilds gold on ebay, someones virtual wife turned out to really be a man and he was playing you this whole time to get a better sword,(this happened all the time) yadda yadda yadda. *EDIT* link to one of my favorite everquest dramas : ) (http://p201.ezboard.com/fancientprophecyguildfrm1.showMessage?topicID=271. topic)

I am equally amazed how much drama can be stirred up on fish and coral forums on almost a daily bases . there is always something : )

I asked otolith today if he thinks this happens on bird or cat boards , I'm guessing its the same there too : ) someone has a protected bird , someone has too many yellow birds in one cage, someone says a clean cage will result in brighter colored birds , someone says feeding your cat vodka will reduce nutrients in the litter box, someone banned me for talking about green birds when this is a blue bird board, someone breed a cat and a bird and they ended up with a cannibal bird that meows and only poops in sand....

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/23000/23475_w.jpg

Sad thing is a resource was lost here but i doubt that this is the motivation of most people talking about it . Mostly just people who either love drama or hate EB. I'm sure the RC thread is going to get very long and we will find out more than we care to about this situation : )

[JnS]

always going to be drama.....heck look at the TV shows we watch...I would guess at least 90% of them are some type of drama......

[thegrimreefer]

Now you can see why Graham and I had our reservations about going to watch him talk last year:wink:

You had access to these documents and emails last year? Or are you suggesting something else? I'm confused, a fairly normal state for me.

[Redwinger]

Ron there was a long laundry list of things that made me had my reservations one was the speculation on this. No I did not have access to these files until recently but had known about the circumstances of the situation at that time. This here is the confirmation on the information that was passed on to me a year ago on this matter. As they say the "proof is in the pudding" A year ago I took it as speculation on this issue as I did not have hard facts which I clearly do now.

What has happened here is clearly a very disturbing thing not only on the part of Eric but also NOAA and the FKNMS.:frown: I also feel that this goes back to the whole tank crash/sabotage BS from a year ago. Although I am not 100% on this but from the email dates and the other dates of postings etc etc. His tank did not crash and no one sabotaged it. This just happens to gel together from what I can tell. But again that is speculation at this point but you can definatelly see what it looks like if you really look into it.:wink:

[Frogbone]

I drawing a blank on this one.. what does the removal of the corals from the sanctuary have to do with EB's claim of his tank crashing (sabotage).

I can't see a connection. Can you elaborate on the motives he might have to claim that his tank was sabotaged ?

[Patrick]

He had the carribean corals in his home system. They were only allowed by permit to be in the culture tanks at the lab. He wanted to keep the corals, so some say he faked a tank crash to keep the corals.

[Frogbone]

so the tank never crashed ?

[Patrick]

I really do not know, but the time line points to Eric faking the crash so he could keep some mother colonies.

[Frogbone]

Ok, I still can't follow that logic.

If he had these colonies, why would faking a tank crash enable him to keep these better than just taking them out of his tank and putting them somewhere else ? If he faked a tank crash then he must have placed these corals somewhere else as well.
I don't see the point of a conspiracy here.

[mattb]

I checked the whois info for the domain and there isn't personal information that is listed, unlike normal. It's a Domain by Proxy... this guy wants to stay anon.....

[Patrick]

You can register any domain for $19.99 by proxy.

[mattb]

right...

[sea monkey]

didn't the papers say that he was required to send back the live corals and the skeletons of the dead ones ? I don't really see how the tank crash would help him.

With the facts at hand, it's a pretty big jump to link this , his tank crash and a few other random bits of info into a full blown theory of what actually happened. certainly possible i guess but so are a lot of other things including this guy who put that site up is plucking out a handful of facts from a bad situation and manipulating them for maximum shock value and drama.

Sure looks like the docs are real and they paint an ugly picture but from just these it is really hard to know what the real events were. If the docs are real , EB's complete denial really does add to the appearance of guilt.

[Redwinger]

Well remember the whole salinity drop? the magnitude of it was just highly unlikely. Then the timing on the emails requesting the corals be returned to the FKNMS was coincidently in April 2006 at the same time of a mysterious tank sabotage:wink: The request for the corals to be returned included all of the ones at reef savers and the one's in his possession. This whole debacle is a cover up on both ends. Eric wants it covered up as his reputation is on the line and the FKNMS wants it covered up as they allowed it to happen

[Frogbone]

didn't the papers say that he was required to send back the live corals and the skeletons of the dead ones ? I don't really see how the tank crash would help him.

With the facts at hand, it's a pretty big jump to link this , his tank crash and a few other random bits of info into a full blown theory of what actually happened.

That's were I got lost as well. I can't see where EB benefits from a faked tank crash...

[Redwinger]

I checked the whois info for the domain and there isn't personal information that is listed, unlike normal. It's a Domain by Proxy... this guy wants to stay anon.....


What makes you think it is a guy:wink:

[Redwinger]

didn't the papers say that he was required to send back the live corals and the skeletons of the dead ones ? I don't really see how the tank crash would help him.

With the facts at hand, it's a pretty big jump to link this , his tank crash and a few other random bits of info into a full blown theory of what actually happened. certainly possible i guess but so are a lot of other things including this guy who put that site up is plucking out a handful of facts from a situation and manipulating them for maximum shock value and drama.

Wouldn't it be awfully hard to have to explain that all your corals are gone to the mass's? What better way to explain that to the mass's than the tank crash/sabotage is the reason he no longer has them when they were clearly either shipped back or were confiscated?:wink:

[Redwinger]

That's were I got lost as well. I can't see where EB benefits from a faked tank crash...

Froggy see above post:smile:

[sea monkey]

Well remember the whole salinity drop? the magnitude of it was just highly unlikely.


I agree , the whole event did seem rather unbelievable once you added the facts up, but clearly this guy has no shortage of enemies so i don't know how unlikely it really is.

[REEFSTOCK]

I sure hope I never have to face the TCMAS tribunal!
:)

"BRING OUT THE COMFY CHAIR!"

[mattb]

What makes you think it is a guy:wink:

True, true, the fairer sex has its vengeful side :)

[mattb]

One question I have, if he's going commercial with all these frags, why these? There is little cool color to them, plus, there were no Acropora cervicornis, nor A. palmata which is the really sexy stuff from the caribean ( other than gorgonians/sea fans).

Also at that time, end of May 2006, the gov made it illegal for non-education and non-research institutions to possess (much less sell) any corals that were protected/endangered. I contacted Ken Nedimyer back in June of 2006, trying to get my hands back on A palmata, but he indicated that the legislation had passed in May 2006.

[JnS]

What makes you think it is a guy:wink:

I have heard from the great vine that this is indead a women......

[mattb]

I have heard from the great vine that this is indead a women......
Really? A pissed off mistress of Mr EB? (Just kidding).

[Redwinger]

One question I have, if he's going commercial with all these frags, why these? There is little cool color to them, plus, there were no Acropora cervicornis, nor A. palmata which is the really sexy stuff from the caribean ( other than gorgonians/sea fans).

Also at that time, end of May 2006, the gov made it illegal for non-education and non-research institutions to possess (much less sell) any corals that were protected/endangered. I contacted Ken Nedimyer back in June of 2006, trying to get my hands back on A palmata, but he indicated that the legislation had passed in May 2006.

Well you see what people pay for frags of something rare to the trade. Imagine what they pay for something that is not only rare to the trade but also illegal to the trade which in turn means that no one has it.:wink:

[Sizzlersonthebrain]

ok ok ok ok ok ok
ok let me get this straight;
two guys went hunting togather. guy nuber 1 has a 10 gauge shotgun, guy number two has a 20 gauge shot gun.
all of a sudden they both spot the larges duck they ever saw and both shot it at the same time.
they aregue for a few mins and decide to share it.
guy 1 says I have a shot that is twice as big as yours so I get two thirds of the duck.
guy two says I have a 20 gauge wich is 2X the number your is so I get two thirds of the duck....

wich guy is right?

[Frogbone]

Well you see what people pay for frags of something rare to the trade. Imagine what they pay for something that is not only rare to the trade but also illegal to the trade which in turn means that no one has it.:wink:

If that was his intention then he's got quiet a set of crotch luggage.

Being in the spotlight as he is I would think that it would be very foolish to own (and in turn show off) or sell any protected species.

[Irenicus]

...

Being in the spotlight as he is I would think that it would be very foolish to own (and in turn show off) or sell any protected species.

Money is a powerful motivator.

[Otolith]

[QUOTE=Frogbone;6681]If that was his intention then he's got quiet a set of crotch luggage.[QUOTE]:rotflmao:


There is too much info that is still missing to jump to or make any conclusions...from what I've read on that site, and have been able to interpret (remember, the sky is somewhat red in my world)
--EB planned to start a broodstock of corals that could be "sold" to researchers to cover the cost of their care
--A person stated that she had no idea that they would be sold to make a profit, but it doesn't say what info she had to make the basis for this claim.

From everything that's posted on the site, I really don't know how everything fits together in such a way to conclude that EB had this devious plan to get rich.

Also, for the record, I am not an EB nor a Spanky "disciple." :smile:

[Irenicus]

I really liked EB when he visited the Twin Cities. He was passionate about the reef and was a pretty down to Earth guy. I have his book and enjoy reading it still.

I'm not judging him one way or another, but until this is resolved one way or another, it will be impossible to disassociate this with him.

Something is definitely there and it stinks. I really hope more information comes to light, hopefully from EB himself.

[Redwinger]

[quote=Frogbone;6681]If that was his intention then he's got quiet a set of crotch luggage.[quote]:rotflmao:


There is too much info that is still missing to jump to or make any conclusions...from what I've read on that site, and have been able to interpret (remember, the sky is somewhat red in my world)
--EB planned to start a broodstock of corals that could be "sold" to researchers to cover the cost of their care
--A person stated that she had no idea that they would be sold to make a profit, but it doesn't say what info she had to make the basis for this claim.

From everything that's posted on the site, I really don't know how everything fits together in such a way to conclude that EB had this devious plan to get rich.

Also, for the record, I am not an EB nor a Spanky "disciple." :smile:1. Selling the corals is still selling the corals (doesn't matter if it is for profit, it is something that wasn't supposed to happen)
2. Corals were contaminated once they entered the warehouse system.
3. The corals taken were over 20cm when he was given explicit instruction to not take anything over 20cm as they were set aside for relocation.
4. It is not a matter of getting rich, it is a matter of a law has been broken by a very influential person to our hobby.
5. I am not a disciple of anyone.:smile: I tend to listen to spanky a little more and then do my own research to confirm it myself. However if the tables were turned and spanky was in EB's situation, your dam right I would be questioning it.:smile:

[Otolith]

[quote=Otolith;6685][quote=Frogbone;6681]If that was his intention then he's got quiet a set of crotch luggage.1. Selling the corals is still selling the corals (doesn't matter if it is for profit, it is something that wasn't supposed to happen)
2. Corals were contaminated once they entered the warehouse system.
3. The corals taken were over 20cm when he was given explicit instruction to not take anything over 20cm as they were set aside for relocation.
4. It is not a matter of getting rich, it is a matter of a law has been broken by a very influential person to our hobby.
5. I am not a disciple of anyone.:smile: I tend to listen to spanky a little more and then do my own research to confirm it myself. However if the tables were turned and spanky was in EB's situation, your dam right I would be questioning it.:smile:

1. If the goal was to develop a broodstock as it appears to be the case in his emails and they all agree, selling corals to researchers to cover your costs to keep the lines going is not unreasonable, the intention that seems to be the case in the limited emails from EB. Nowhere does there seem to be a reply that he shouldn't "sell" to researchers. Now selling to the general public, that would be a big no no.

2. Yep, that's a dumb thing to do on his part if he allowed it to happen, not to mention a dumb thing for the NOAA or the FK whatever to allow to happen.

3. Yep, that appears to be the case and dumb on his part, but who knows if there is other documentation/communication in regards to his plans...but who knows if he thought he was going to "help" the corals more if he took them vs. leaving them for where they were supposed to go...

4. Yep, it appears he's made some bad decisions.

5. What other research have you been able to do to support you conclusions? It just seems that there's too much missing and that the story is too one-sided to make many conclusions...



I agree that it appears that EB did some really dumb things and that he got "caught" and did a poor job resolving the situation and going to a foreign country and ignoring things hoping that it would go away is dumb...it's just hard to put a whole "conspiracy" about this together. Unfortunately, it appears that we won't ever hear EB's side as it appears he would just rather brush it under the rug.

[tico mike]

EB can't improve his position by replying. If he makes one comment, there will be 100 more questions, then if he doesn't comment again, everyone will wonder why he didn't reply when he replied once already and people will think he's hiding something again. That's why attorneys tell their clients not to comment. It's called a can of worms.

Do I think EB did something wrong. Yes. How bad? I don't know. Why do I think that? Someone took the time to release enough info that shows such. Maybe we got a glimpse of what we would all be capable of, given the human condition of rationalization with respect to unattended cookie jars.:wink:

[Redwinger]

1. How about robbing the bank and useing the proceeds to fund studys on how bank robberies work and how to prevent them. (analogy from another person)

2. Yes dumb or it was the whoops accidentally put them in with the wrong corals so they cannot be returned as they are contaminated.

3. Common sense should prevail in a situation of the federal government giving orders on a federal permit.

4. Very Very bad decisions

5. Conversations with individuals close to the situation, my own research to support questions of my own and then extensive review over the documents on the site.

6. I thought you weren't going to comment:wink: Now I can't call you a wuss:tongue:


Maybe his attorneys have instructed him to "brush it under the rug" IE "no comment" (speculation on a educated guess):smile:

[Otolith]

1. How about robbing the bank and useing the proceeds to fund studys on how bank robberies work and how to prevent them. (analogy from another person)

Wow, I can't believe you would actually quote gregt. :gay2: That is a totally different scenario than telling people, as he appeared to state in an email, something that's pretty reasonable to do. Keeping live animals is expensive, and it is not unreasonable to recoup your costs. Making a ****load of money off it, OTOH, would be.

[Otolith]

6. I thought you weren't going to comment:wink: Now I can't call you a wuss:tongue:


Maybe his attorneys have instructed him to "brush it under the rug" IE "no comment" (speculation on a educated guess):smile:Sometimes I just can't help it. :flowerplus:

[Irenicus]

EB can't improve his position by replying. If he makes one comment, there will be 100 more questions, then if he doesn't comment again, everyone will wonder why he didn't reply when he replied once already and people will think he's hiding something again. That's why attorneys tell their clients not to comment. It's called a can of worms.

...

I never thought of that. You're absolutely right Mike.:agree:

[Redwinger]

Wow, I can't believe you would actually quote gregt. :gay2: That is a totally different scenario than telling people, as he appeared to state in an email, something that's pretty reasonable to do. Keeping live animals is expensive, and it is not unreasonable to recoup your costs. Making a ****load of money off it, OTOH, would be.

Is that who said that? I didn't even realize that. It is a rather good analogy IMO. Oh I know it is expensive no doubt about it and I suppose that would justify them being in his system? Alongside a Wholesale for profit company?(this is where FKNMS and NOAA dropped the ball) The email stateing the broodstock, was not in a email to NOAA or the FKNMS.

Sometimes I just can't help it. :flowerplus:

I knew you would come around:biggrin:

[sea monkey]

EB can't improve his position by replying. If he makes one comment, there will be 100 more questions, then if he doesn't comment again, everyone will wonder why he didn't reply when he replied once already and people will think he's hiding something again. That's why attorneys tell their clients not to comment. It's called a can of worms.

Do I think EB did something wrong. Yes. How bad? I don't know. Why do I think that? Someone took the time to release enough info that shows such. Maybe we got a glimpse of what we would all be capable of, given the human condition of rationalization with respect to unattended cookie jars.:wink:

for what it's worth, he did post that it was all a bunch of made up lies and he is trying to find out who did it. He then locked the thread and later deleted it.

[Redwinger]

for what it's worth, he did post that it was all a bunch of made up lies and he is trying to find out who did it. He then locked the thread and later deleted it.


Yes but why not explain it a little more? Why not defend yourself and your reputation which is definitely on the line?. I would love to hear his side of the story with open ears:smile:

[Otolith]

I would love to hear his side of the story with open ears:smile:So would I but if he did something stupid that he's going to get into trouble for he won't be saying a word, even if he'd want to...Mike is correct that it's best for him to not say a thing.

[Redwinger]

So would I but if he did something stupid that he's going to get into trouble for he won't be saying a word, even if he'd want to...Mike is correct that it's best for him to not say a thing.

Exactly my point:wink:

[tico mike]

He then locked the thread and later deleted it.


Thereby proving my point.:look:

[Otolith]

Is it time to break out the tinfoil hats yet? They are out to get us. :jester:

[tico mike]

I just lowered the rating a full star with a terrible vote. hehehe

[Tutmos]

The thing I'm most interested in is just how many total man hours have been consumed worldwide in the reading of all these threads and posting replies, including his tank crash last year. Without the TCMAS Cliff Notes I'd have no clue what had happened : ).

People like drama. Also keep in mind mobs like to see others fail, especially if the person is a public figure. In a strange way it makes them feel better about thier own lives for whatever reason.

With that said I have no clue if he really did anything bad, nor do I intend to spend the time researching the material to form an opinion, the only opinion I have is that I remember the threads about his tank crash last year and it really did seem very fishy, no punn. :)

Let me know when we know for a fact what happened please.

Kevin W.

[sihaya]

As they teach us in law school... perceptions of the truth can be quite mercurial. I've seen different people interpret these same documents (and the suggested facts therein) in a wide variety of ways.

If you're looking for an answer as to who was or was not at fault, that's not something anyone can objectively tell you since how you personally understand "fault" is a matter of your own personal philosophy and convention (i.e. not exactly something you could measure with a test kit). ;)

[Otolith]

Hmmm, I guess I would be interested in "your own personal philosophy and convention." :)

[sihaya]

Well, thank you. But I'm afraid people might give undue weight (and/or criticism) to my opinion since I'm the one who obtained and posted the information. I wasn't involved in the project in any way, so I'm probably not any more "qualified" to interpret the documents than anyone else.

On the other hand, if you have any questions about the FOIA requests or documents, I'll try to answer them for you if I can. :)

[Frogbone]

Well, thank you. But I'm afraid people might give undue weight (and/or criticism) to my opinion since I'm the one who obtained and posted the information. I wasn't involved in the project in any way, so I'm probably not any more "qualified" to interpret the documents than anyone else.

On the other hand, if you have any questions about the FOIA requests or documents, I'll try to answer them for you if I can. :)

ummm....what ?

I'd be interested in what your motivations were to obtain and post that information.

[sihaya]

I know this might sound bizarre... but when I found out that hundreds of lbs of protected Florida corals were taken for this project and then learned that apparently nothing came of it, I wanted to know what happened. And I wasn't the only one who was curious. So instead of keeping all the info to myself, I posted it.

[Frogbone]

IC, one more question...what's your connection to TCMAS ? Are you a member ? I am asking because in your first post on this board you claim to be the person who opend that can of worms and I wonder why that is. What is your motivation coming here and disclose this info rather than TRT or RC ?

[sihaya]

Well, all my websites have trackers... so I know from where people are getting to the site. That's how I found this site. I'm banned from RC (have been for well over a year now) and I think the TRT thread is a little scary. It's just easier to help people on these smaller club forums. However, I do talk a bit in the thread on www.reefs.org.

But I don't mean to intrude and I'll leave y'all alone if you want.

btw, you tried to message me or something but it said I'm not allowed to send those messages... :confused:

[Patrick]

Hello Sihaya, I have to say, I am a fan of your postings on all the boards! I have found that you really tell it like it is and do not sugar coat it.

I was especially fond of your postings on Reef Frontiers and the great salt debacle!

[sihaya]

Oh, thank you Patrick! I really appreciate the kind words (especially in the middle of all this).

Are you the same screen name on the other forums too?