Best time to add 2 part solution

[kjdeut]

Just switched over to using the 2 part solution and I was wondering if it is better to add the part 1 (alk) at night after the lights go out when Ph usually takes a dip?
I have noticed that my Ph takes a jump after adding the part 1 whcih got me thinking I should add it after the lights are out so the Ph doesnt take such a dip at night. I dont use a dosing pump so I add the part 1 (50ml) all at once.

Ken

[laja9801]

Ken,
I add my 2 part at night and see the ph rise also. I have it balanced about right. It adds it all at once as of now but the time that I have it set to is 3am. This makes my evening dip and my morning dip about equal seeing my lights go out at 10pm.
I now have the software upgrade on my aquacontroller so my goal is to oscillate on and off to keep as consistant of a ph as possible.
I am using the Dosing pumps that Grigor posted back on TRT and they work great.

[kjdeut]

Thanks Jason, That is what I was thinking would happen if I dosed after the lights are out. But to be more effective I think I need to look at getting a dosing pump. My tank has grown up in the past year and it is getting difficult to keep everything in balance.

Ken

[Wags]

I am in the process of starting to use the 2-part also. I was thinking of using a drip method with the IV bag thumbwheel to control the drip rate. Any pluses or minuses to this idea before I get going on it? I was thinking that the smaller diameter lines you get with the drip sets might clog up but I'm not sure.

[David Grigor]

I can't remember exactly, but I do remember it coming up in the Reef Chemestry forum that fish and corals are mostly sensitive to salinity changes etc. and a sudden spike in PH as long as it is not such a spike to cause precipitation is not really a stresser to our tanks. Having said that, if you have the means to dispense slowly through the day or for several hours during the night to lessen the spike, I would definately try to do so. But at the same time, I wouldn't spend hundreds of dollars to accomplish if you don't have the equipment already to do so by just making some adjustments.

If your doing 2 part dosing, you can get by with just 1 dosing pump ( if cost is an issue ) by using a dosing pump for the Alk portions ( for example ) and place a diluted calcium solution in your auto top off ( providing you use auto top off and is just freshwater would obviously not work with Kalk ). This would save a little money at least in the short term and yet be fully automated.

The dosing pump Jason and I use with a AC Jr. is $62 plus shipping so it shouldn't break the bank to automate the Alk portion. The CA is much easier to dispense with little worry about precipiatation so you could still do that manually or in your topoff.

[Irenicus]

David, where did you purchase the $62 pump?

[David Grigor]

upgrade to the neopreme tubing. is another $2 so make that $64+shipping. . Don't go with the silicone tubing mine didn't even last 3 months before needing replaced. I use the pump with the 3mm tubing. So it's approx. 5.6ml per minute. As your consumption rate goes up you just increase the minutes. Works quite well with the AC Jr. this way. But any timer that you can go down to the minute would work. Radio Shack and the like they run about $20. You can use the smaller mm tubing to get more control, but my finding from using 2 part for a year now is usually when I make adjustments I do it in 10ml increments so 5ml per minute should provide enough sensitivity to achieve/maintain just about any ALK or CA level you want.

The pump it self is rated at 8000 hours so really want to try to limit the max hours per day it runs to 2 hours or less so you don't want to go with to small of tubing that would cause it to run all day. Neopreme tubing is rated a 800 hours and is about $3 to replace. So if you size the pump/tubing to 1 hours a day runtime the pump should last 20years and the tubing 2 years, 2 hours a day of course would be 10year and 1 year respectively and so on and so on.

If you do use with a AC Jr. or III be sure you upgrade to the lastest firmware ( 3.2 ) and also there is a potential issue with using DC8 so let me or Jason know before doing this way so we can give you the full scoop and work arounds to get it to work the way you want. We learned the hard way no sense for you to do so as well. Running with a DC4 on a AC Jr or III is a non issue.

For top off where using gallon or more a day, you should be looking at the larger pumps with larger tubing to try to minimize the daily runtime to get the most life from it. So for Kalk, I'm using the SP200 at 30ml a minute on the Ac Jr. along with a float switch to keep it precise. The Jr. controls by time and PH, the dosing pump controls how fast so that provides plenty of redundancy for the float switch. One last thing, if using with top off switch, may also look into using the DC model vs. Ac model so you don't need a relay.

http://www.aptinstruments.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AI&Product_Code=SP100FO&Category_Code=SP100

Note: the Ryan at twopartsolutions.com carries these pumps too but has had a real hard time keeping in stock and working with the APT company so while I don't want to take business away from Ryan, it you want it now you may have to order directly.

[kjdeut]

Hey David, Thanks for the information. I was just out at Ryan's 2 part site and he is sold out of the 2 part pumps. I send him a PM asking when he will get some more in.
If I do go with a pump I would like to use it with my AC jr and DC8, so any tip/tricks you have learned on the best way to use it would be great.
Thanks again.
Ken

[David Grigor]

Okay, I'll go ahead and just post it. The DC8 doesn't use true relays. There are manufacturing tolerances that it doesn't always work with very low wattage or devices with low power factors. There are some of the channels may be able to turn if on but it doesn't sense a load on the channel and won't turn it off. So be sure to test the channel before actually using to be sure it can fully control it. Using the manual control is a good way to test. Curt has insured us that if the channel will turn it off that it will do so consistantly. So you may have to move it around to different channels to get it to work. On a DC4 it uses true relays and will turn on/off recardless of the load or percieved load. This is also a known issue with a Aqualifter pump and a few other low wattage devices. Since I will be exceeding the 8 channels anyway, I am going ahead and using the 3 dosing pumps ( ALK, CA, and Kalk topoff ) on the DC4 strip. But BJs little tank has been running this dosing pump on a DC8 since Novemember without issue.

Also beware that when combining commands like when lights are off then oscilate 1 minute on 5 minutes off, doesn't consistantly work with until your get on the 3.2 firmware.

[Irenicus]

Thanks David. I'll have to pick one of those up.

[David Grigor]

Just keep in mind the 8000 hours life of the motor when you determine what pump/application to use it for. You don't want to run the thing 24/7 as it would only last 1.3 years but on/off a total of 1 hour per day should last 20 years.....

[sea monkey]

upgrade to the neopreme tubing. is another $2 so make that $64+shipping. . Don't go with the silicone tubing mine didn't even last 3 months before needing replaced. I use the pump with the 3mm tubing. So it's approx. 5.6ml per minute. As your consumption rate goes up you just increase the minutes. Works quite well with the AC Jr. this way. But any timer that you can go down to the minute would work. Radio Shack and the like they run about $20. You can use the smaller mm tubing to get more control, but my finding from using 2 part for a year now is usually when I make adjustments I do it in 10ml increments so 5ml per minute should provide enough sensitivity to achieve/maintain just about any ALK or CA level you want.

The pump it self is rated at 8000 hours so really want to try to limit the max hours per day it runs to 2 hours or less so you don't want to go with to small of tubing that would cause it to run all day. Neopreme tubing is rated a 800 hours and is about $3 to replace. So if you size the pump/tubing to 1 hours a day runtime the pump should last 20years and the tubing 2 years, 2 hours a day of course would be 10year and 1 year respectively and so on and so on.

If you do use with a AC Jr. or III be sure you upgrade to the lastest firmware ( 3.2 ) and also there is a potential issue with using DC8 so let me or Jason know before doing this way so we can give you the full scoop and work arounds to get it to work the way you want. We learned the hard way no sense for you to do so as well. Running with a DC4 on a AC Jr or III is a non issue.

For top off where using gallon or more a day, you should be looking at the larger pumps with larger tubing to try to minimize the daily runtime to get the most life from it. So for Kalk, I'm using the SP200 at 30ml a minute on the Ac Jr. along with a float switch to keep it precise. The Jr. controls by time and PH, the dosing pump controls how fast so that provides plenty of redundancy for the float switch. One last thing, if using with top off switch, may also look into using the DC model vs. Ac model so you don't need a relay.

http://www.aptinstruments.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AI&Product_Code=SP100FO&Category_Code=SP100

Note: the Ryan at twopartsolutions.com carries these pumps too but has had a real hard time keeping in stock and working with the APT company so while I don't want to take business away from Ryan, it you want it now you may have to order directly.

ya we have an order in for 20 of each kind . lets hope they are in next week ... If you want to wait ours come with the right tubing and are a bit cheaper. Id be curious how fast they fill single orders though : )

to the original topic I have my doser hooked up the the reef keeper ( any timer will work) and I have it dose all the the calcium in the morning and I split up the alk portion so the pump turns on few about five minutes every couple hours so there is little Ph change.

[kjdeut]

I went out to the Neptune site and it tells you the jr firmware is upgradeable but doesnt tell you how to do it, am I missing something?

[sea monkey]

Just keep in mind the 8000 hours life of the motor when you determine what pump/application to use it for. You don't want to run the thing 24/7 as it would only last 1.3 years but on/off a total of 1 hour per day should last 20 years.....

from talking to these guys and a billion other dosing pump manufacturers I have a feeling the 8000 hours they said is a generous estimate. These are certainly not made for continuous duty. however used for an hour a day they should last a really long time .

[Wags]

I went out to the Neptune site and it tells you the jr firmware is upgradeable but doesnt tell you how to do it, am I missing something?

http://www.neptunesys.com/manuals.htm

I don't know if you have the serial port or not but if looks like you just download one of the two .zip files and away you go.

[kjdeut]

Guess I did miss it :) Thanks Wags.

[David Grigor]

I went out to the Neptune site and it tells you the jr firmware is upgradeable but doesnt tell you how to do it, am I missing something?

Ken, it depends on which Jr you got. The one with the serial add on or without. Mine is the one without. In that case, you can either borrow mine ( $20 with shipping from neptune ) or order the adapter cable to will hook to your computer ( via serial cable ) to your temp probe connector. Many computer's don't have a seial cable anymore. My laptop happens to have one. It requires a different cable if you have the serial port options on your Jr. that you can either buy from them or make yourself with the pin configuations on there website.

Here is the link to order the cable for the NON-SERIAL PORT Jrs.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=606676&highlight=firmware+Jr+cable

[David Grigor]

Id be curious how fast they fill single orders though : )


when I ordered the first time back in November'ish, I ordered early in the week and was at my door before the weekend.

I ordered 3 more on Tuesday ( becuase I decided I wanted to try the DC model so it would be more compatable with a float switch without needing a 12v relay ) so I'll let you know how long it takes.

[spsick]

I add mine every morning before work,both parts. I think that's what julian sprung reccomends both in vol. 3 and on the c-balance. just my 2 cents

[kjdeut]

Ken, it depends on which Jr you got. The one with the serial add on or without. Mine is the one without. In that case, you can either borrow mine ( $20 with shipping from neptune ) or order the adapter cable to will hook to your computer ( via serial cable ) to your temp probe connector.

Thanks for the offer David but I have a feeling Im keeping my jrs for awhile so I might as well get a serial cable. I checked and both of mine are without the serial connection and my laptop has one. I think im good to go, thanks again for the info.

[Wags]

Guess I did miss it :) Thanks Wags.

No problem, I was just looking for the same thing myself. Let me know how the firmware upgrade works for you.

[sea monkey]

when I ordered the first time back in November'ish, I ordered early in the week and was at my door before the weekend.

I ordered 3 more on Tuesday ( becuase I decided I wanted to try the DC model so it would be more compatable with a float switch without needing a 12v relay ) so I'll let you know how long it takes.

let me know, I'm curious . seems odd that they don't fill our orders faster , we have the potential to be a huge customer ....

[David Grigor]

Thanks for the offer David but I have a feeling Im keeping my jrs for awhile so I might as well get a serial cable.

Your welcome. I know you will be happy with the automation this config is going to help with. I highly recommend it and actually swapping out my litermeter 3 pump config. for this way and plan to sell it to recoupe some money for frag tank hardware upgrades.

[sea monkey]

when I ordered the first time back in November'ish, I ordered early in the week and was at my door before the weekend.

I ordered 3 more on Tuesday ( becuase I decided I wanted to try the DC model so it would be more compatable with a float switch without needing a 12v relay ) so I'll let you know how long it takes.


for what it's worth he said they are ready for shipping now and should go out Monday so lets hope for wednesday : )

[kjdeut]

for what it's worth he said they are ready for shipping now and should go out Monday so lets hope for wednesday : )

Hey Ryan, I am in no hurry so let me know if you get them in on Wednesday. Im looking for one of the $59.00 ones that David described.

Thanks,
Ken

[thepollock]

will i have ne problems with useing x10 to control my pumps? and how do i set my ac jr to do so. iam still learning how to get it to work.

[sea monkey]

worst case , use a cheap home depot digital timer .

[David Grigor]

will i have ne problems with useing x10 to control my pumps? and how do i set my ac jr to do so. iam still learning how to get it to work.

First off I'll preface by saying I have no experience with X10 but to get a AC controller to work with X10 you first much buy the "Control Interface Hardware" usually runs about $40.

[thepollock]

i have all of that. my ac jr is runing right now. i was just wondering how i would set it to run my pumps for dosing?

[sea monkey]

when I ordered the first time back in November'ish, I ordered early in the week and was at my door before the weekend.

I ordered 3 more on Tuesday ( becuase I decided I wanted to try the DC model so it would be more compatable with a float switch without needing a 12v relay ) so I'll let you know how long it takes. get them yet ? we got a few in today but certainly not anywhere our full order.

I got one of these coming in to play with. if it works i think we will change over to these . they cost a few bucks more but they are adjustable speed , come in a case with a plug, attach to each other and appear to be build a bit more solid. The expected life span is considerable shorter than APT but im not so sure i believe APT, they have not proven to be the most trustworthy company.

http://www.beta-technology.com/kitchen_tahoe.html

[kjdeut]

Have you ever had any problems with ordering from APT intruments? Just asking because I went on line to order and their security cert has been expired since like 2004. I then called to order and I never got a response back.
Anyone know of other suppliers out there?

Ken

[sea monkey]

APT is who we are getting them from.


looks like these guys got some in stock , if you are interested id bite quick , I know they are having troubles finding the used medical pumps to refurbish , one of their sources dried up .
http://www.innovativeaquatics.com/products/nautilis2.html

[sea monkey]

for anyone interested we got 11 of the dual head pumps in today.

http://www.twopartsolution.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26_30&products_id=30

I can't save them for anyone , ya need to order them off the site . if ya want to pick it up i can refund the shipping when ya get here.