Baby Bangaiis, or sick male?

Discussion in 'Aquatics Breeding (Fish, coral, inverts)' started by Julesm0260, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. Julesm0260

    Julesm0260 Junior Member
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    I purchased a bonded pair of Bangaiis last december in hopes of breeding them. However, months passed and nothing happened. I'm thinking they were a bit too young when I got them. But now, the male is not eating…kind of. He will dart towards food, then stop (perhaps realizing he can't eat), allowing the food to float pass. However, this is when I get confused and slightly worried: I do sometimes see him eat the smallest bit of a shrimp. Is it normal for a bangaii that is carrying for the first time to eat a bit if he can, or is something wrong with him? Another worry: i haven't seen the eggs yet. Help!
     
  2. David Grigor

    David Grigor TCMAS Old Timer
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    As time goes by it will become obvious as you can't miss the bulge.
     
  3. OP
    Julesm0260

    Julesm0260 Junior Member
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    So its normal if he's eating a tiny bit?
     
  4. zoolan70

    zoolan70 Senior Member
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    It's not uncommon. If he can get food past the eggs, he will eat. Plus, as a young male, he's not as careful with the eggs as when they get older.

    Are you breeding them in a separate tank, or in a full reef? Remember that you need to separate the male and female for a few weeks or more to fatten the male back up again between broods. That's how I lost my male, but I also had no real way to get him out of my reef.
     
  5. OP
    Julesm0260

    Julesm0260 Junior Member
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    right now i have them in a 29 gallon reef, but i want to move them into a ten gallon i have running with nothing but a bit of live rock in it. I'll set up another small tank to raise the fry in.
     
  6. David Grigor

    David Grigor TCMAS Old Timer
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    Same here. I've lost all my males. They just don't have enough time between broods to recover. She keeps'em busy.
     
  7. jlanger

    jlanger "The North Remembers"
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    My pair have been breeding for a while now, but none of the clutches have reached the hatching point. The male will carry the eggs for just over a week before I notice him eating again. He is either too young or eventually gets hungry enough and reject/eat the eggs.
    The pair are in a nano (17gal display) with a few other fish. I have thought about moving them into a separate tank, burt don't really want to deal with that extra tank at the moment.
     
  8. Chad Vossen

    Chad Vossen Vossen kinda rhymes with awesome
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    If the male's mouth looks like he's got something in it, it's definitely eggs. If it's their first spawn, it could also be too few eggs to make his mouth puffy.

    [​IMG]

    I recommend feeding LRS fertility blend or reef frenzy to both parents, and especially heavily between spawns. Chop it into pea sized cubes and feed it partially frozen. They'll swallow it whole.
    I've noticed that males that failed to hold full term would start holding full term just 2 weeks after feeding LRS.

    If you need to capture a banggai for any reason, it's really easy to do with a small fishing hook. Make sure to remove the barb, and bait it with some PE mysis. Banggai are super easy to catch this way with their big mouth. Keep in mind that there is some risk of the hook going through their eye, but I have not had this happen yet.

    Raising the babies is relatively easy. They'll quickly eat baby brine shrimp, however you should also feed live copepods as well. A diet of only baby brine shrimp will result in sudden shock syndrome, which they basically have a seizure any time they get excited and die. Feeding the copepods will fill in the nutritional gaps and keep them healthy.
    Baby banggai can be raised on pellets from day one, but it's tricky. I recommend reading the banggai rescue book to learn more about how I got them eating pellets.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Chad Vossen

    Chad Vossen Vossen kinda rhymes with awesome
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    You are in a perfect situation to test the fertility blend then. Chop it up into chunks and feed to the banggai while partially frozen still. They'll gulp it down. I'm betting after a few weeks, he'll start holding full term.
     
  10. jlanger

    jlanger "The North Remembers"
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    The Fertility Frenzy is in the rotation of foods fed to this tank, but the Bangaii aren't the biggest fans of that blend. They seem to be finicky eaters and only like some of the ingredients. If they do take in a chunk, they spit it out and select certain bits from it.
    The Reef Frenzy, on the other hand, is their favorite! They devour everything from that blend.
     
  11. OP
    Julesm0260

    Julesm0260 Junior Member
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    wow this is really helpful! I'm excited to see how well my male does this time around, and I'll look into the fertility and reef frenzy food. One more question: is the male normally noticeably smaller than the female? I know I'm kind of being paranoid, but I really want this to work out.
     
  12. zoolan70

    zoolan70 Senior Member
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    Not like you would see in clownfish. My pair they were about the same size, but that could very well have just been age. I've since added another one to the tank and they are hanging out together, but the new one is much smaller than the existing one, so I won't be sure they are paired (or even M/F) until it gets a bit bigger.
     
  13. Chad Vossen

    Chad Vossen Vossen kinda rhymes with awesome
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    Fin size, jaw structure, body shape, and all that are unreliable ways of sexing the banggai. The only 100% way to know is when they spawn.

    Simply putting two together and observing them in QT is a good way of finding a pair. If they are not a pair, you'll quickly know from the shredded fins. They will sometimes get along and behave like a pair when first put together, but they are more social at night and that's when fighting may occur.

    My Preferred way of sexing banggai is to check their vent. One bump = female. Two bumps = male.
    [​IMG]

    Actually, while searching for photos to share, I stumbled onto an article where a friend of mine details exactly the same thing I'm saying.
    http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/how-to-determine-the-sex-of-banggai-cardinalfish
     
  14. OP
    Julesm0260

    Julesm0260 Junior Member
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    I know they are a pair. I saw that article earlier and i checked. I also ordered them as a pair from liveaquaria.
     
  15. capman

    capman I contributed!
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    Regarding feeding the babies: When I was raising up a clutch of babies some years back I came to the conclusion pretty quickly that multiple feedings a day was important, especially early on. I was hatching the brine shrimp daily, but after my first feeding of the day (at which point I did the separation from the egg shells) I put the leftover baby shrimp in a container of saltwater the fridge to keep them in good shape for several feedings later in the day.
     

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