DIY flow leveraging. $0.73

Discussion in 'DIY Forums' started by RSnodgrass, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. RSnodgrass

    RSnodgrass TCMAS President
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    Some of you may have seen in my build that I was using a new type of loc-line nozzle which ultimately has significantly increased the flow created by my existing return pump.

    Originally I planned to make them my own and opted for the clean look of a fabricated one for ~$20 with some extra features. The fabricated ones does have distinct drawbacks I suspect that I can go over later. However, for my QT I figured I'd try it out DIY style.

    The concept is... high pressure/flow exiting the nozzles into the display naturally draw in low pressure/flow from around. This design harnesses that slow ambient water and channels it in your direction. The net result is a noticeable increase in flow without adding bulky powerheads.

    Originally I saw an air based concept on shark tank that gave me the idea, Dyson fans already use it, and naturally someone smarter is already making them for water.
     
    #1 RSnodgrass, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  2. OP
    RSnodgrass

    RSnodgrass TCMAS President
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    First thing I did was buy a couple of flush reduction bushings of different sizes because I want to see if there is a sweet spot.
    IMG_20180113_211719759_TOP.jpg

    Below you can see how I'm trying to fit it.
    IMG_20180113_211748540.jpg

    Next was to drill the opening to fit better with my 3/4" loc-line nozzle. This could probably be avoided but my Menards didn't sell a smooth 3/4" female fitting. I also need the gap in the fitting which you'll see why.
    IMG_20180113_212211016.jpg IMG_20180113_214726193.jpg

    I drilled right to the end but I suspect that I'd get better performance mounting the loc-line further back. I'll make another one tomorrow.
    IMG_20180113_214803968.jpg
     
    #2 RSnodgrass, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  3. OP
    RSnodgrass

    RSnodgrass TCMAS President
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    The beauty of these particular pvc joints for me is it solved a big problem for me... how to support the outer ring. These already have three supports built in!

    Second issue I'm going to have is no adhesives bond with loc-line. I'm really at a loss here to reliably attach the piece.

    The holes are because I originally tried drilling through the gap in the fitting but quickly realized the dremel is far more effective.
    IMG_20180113_215724232_TOP.jpg IMG_20180113_220358496.jpg

    More or less a final design...
    IMG_20180113_221558081.jpg IMG_20180113_221605990.jpg

    Other then testing different size fittings and depth to seat the lock-line into it do you have suggestions?
     
    #3 RSnodgrass, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  4. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Here is the unit I purchased, it works extremely well. The veins on the interior causes the flow to shift ALL over.
    Positive is that nothing gets continuously blasted.
    Potential negative is that on my 300 it's a reach to get it to move water half way across the tank because it doesn't build momentum with the flow moving around.
    2017-10-30_21_33_30.gif
     
    #4 RSnodgrass, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  5. Jonty

    Jonty I contributed!
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  6. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Thanks for finding that link Jonty. I ultimately went with the competitors version because of the random flow which works surprisingly well but that is the closest to what I'm trying to make. The BRS version has the benefit (I'd easily guess) of having the flow reach across a tank with relative ease.

    That design brings up some good questions/observations.

    1) Both manufacturers have the flow going into the mechanism at the very beginning. Presumably seating it further in doesn't improve performance or isn't worth the trade off of cleaning difficulties.

    2) I really didn't like how much it tapers the flow at the end. I did not want this to limit my pumps performance. In thinking about what @Riley taught me I'd guess in most setups (possibly mine too) the output isn't at capacity or limited elsewhere in the plumbing design so this may not be a point of true bottleneck on the pumps flow.

    Anyone who understands this better have a theory or knowledge of it?
    I still need suggestions on how to attach it.
     
    #6 RSnodgrass, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  7. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    I'm going to order one of the BRS versions to test all side by side.
     
  8. KJoFan

    KJoFan Senior Member
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    I purchased a pair of the BRS/CPR ones for my new 150g. I'll be curious to see your side by side comparison. See if I made a good decision or not. :)
     
  9. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Quick update before I get going on other things.
    I picked up a different drill bit at Menards that made augering out the PVC really easy.

    Here are a few sample pieces that seat the output at different depths. If I was only using PVC parts and not combining with loc-line this would be a lot easier. I think I'll do away with the lock-line except with the purchased units for now unless someone can tell me a good way to attach them.
    IMG_20180114_135602019.jpg IMG_20180114_135618597.jpg
     
    #9 RSnodgrass, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  10. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Well I've been doing alot of re-reading to try and find a viable way to attach loc-line to these with no avail, the stuff is impermeable. However I did find a number of articles on eductors so for those of you who already knew about them thanks for not renewing the fun (o:

    The experiments continue... perhaps there is an easy solution of physically melting the part together it 2-3 points like a melted rivet.
     
  11. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Melting, at least with my availability of tools and or skill, is not going to work. The melting point of the PVC is much lower and I cannot heat a needle enough to push through the inside out (loc-line first).

    Fortunately the standard reducing fitting used to covert 3/4ths loc-line into a flat nozzle is a tight 1/2" PVC fit. I figure if I need to sure it up I can still use PVC glue as it will bind to the PVC and follow the curve of the loc-line to hold it in place.

    Right now this is my pick for a winner. A 1.5" to 1/2" reducer with the the output seated as flush to the back of the PVC fitting as possible leaving more of the drum to accelerate and direct the flow.
    IMG_20180114_213629317.jpg IMG_20180114_213659017.jpg

    Second choice on a lower flow system is the 1.25" to 1/2" reducer.
    Since the loc-line doesn't fit as tight I'm going to use a 1/2" section of pipe and adjust the seating distance to see if there is a visual difference.
    IMG_20180114_213909799.jpg IMG_20180114_213923946.jpg
     
  12. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Guess who's donating eductors to our next swap! VCA is sending several to be donated and there might be a display tank to show the flow which would be very cool!
     
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  13. Riley

    Riley I contributed!
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    I was looking at this thinking how these are clever and are nicely done for someone not using any machinery. I was also thinking how nice they'd be if you used a lathe. I think you can justify buying a four figure machine to make a $0.73 part :)
     
  14. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Hahahaha I support this logic!

    A drill press would certainly help so I might as well get on of those too (o:
     
  15. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Brief update... here's how I was able to drill so straight.
    IMG_20180117_205458641.jpg
    I just had to drill through the board straight for each size bit. Then I clamped it down hard on top of the fitting so the bit wouldn't walk and this got me ~1/2 way through before I had to worry too much.
     
  16. Riley

    Riley I contributed!
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    I see why a drill press would help! That was a clever way to drill what you needed.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Then I found a paper clip, bryopsis, and some pine nuts that I used to... (o;
     
  18. acharpenter

    acharpenter Senior Member
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    Well done MacGyver!
     
  19. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Here's a teaser update of them all side by side with a standard nozzle and a standard PVC can...

    1516680513537421599281.jpg

    The CPR version sold on BRS is huge compared to all the rest... I'm not sure the photo does it justice and will be interesting to see the difference.

    15166806891171484680472.jpg
     
  20. DarkSky

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    Those look great. Interested to see them in action.

    If you need to drill more, I have a drill kit that allows you to drill straight holes using a metal clamp. I want to buy a drill press at some point (cnc machine is next on the list) but this metal clamp doodad does exactly what your wood guide does without worrying about chewing up the wooden guide.
     
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