Dosing: What? How much? Effects?

Discussion in 'Weekly Reef discussions' started by mnmuskyman2011, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. mnmuskyman2011

    mnmuskyman2011 I contributed!
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    TCMAS Weekly Discussion

    We would like to get more reef related discussions going on the forum. We will post a weekly topic to get the discussion started then let you all take it from there. The rules are simple, keep on topic and keep it positive.

    This weeks topic: Dosing: Do you do it? If not, why not? If so, what supplements are you dosing to your tanks? And what benefits are you noticing? Be as specific as you can on amounts and how often.

    Also, feel free to post an idea for future topics as well.
     
  2. Nickz

    Nickz Senior Member
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    I am not currently dosing anything in my tanks. So far it is not needed, the waterchanges are keeping up, but I am setup to dose kalkwasser when the need arises.

    I did dose my tank with electricity for a couple months... DON"T do that, it wasn't good in any way.
     
    #2 Nickz, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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  3. infinityends

    infinityends Senior Member
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    I dose 2 part. Overall I pretty much just dose alkalinity.

    I've found that putting a couple of pumps of alk solution into my top off keeps my alkalinity pretty stable.
    I've never really notice my calc drop below suggested parameters.

    At some point I'll get a proper dosing system setup

    I don't have tons of coral but I wouldn't call the tanks sparse either. I do see pretty decent growth for not monitoring parameters super closely.

    I also dose the HW trace elements a couple times per week.
     
    #3 infinityends, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
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  4. jblue

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    I have a 120g with about 15g sump
    I'm dosing about 32mL per day of each solution of 2 part. My top off also has 2 tsp kalk in about 4 gallons of top off water. Switched from kalk to 2 part. Mostly keeping a little kalk while I get transitioned and get my 2 part dialed in. My Alk is about 8-9, Calcium is about 400, and pH is about 8.1-8.2 most of the time.

    Had some blue sps that were a little pale and read this article:

    http://reefbuilders.com/2008/09/03/guide-of-sps-coral-coloration-make-them-more-vivid-bright/

    States pale blues can be due to low iodide. Started dosing seachem reef iodide 4 days ago and my blues are a LOT more blue. I like the "idea" of the color based dosing discussed in the article. My sps dedicated tank has only been up for about for a little over 4 months, so I'm not sure how reckless that might be long term, but the results with just the blues so far are pretty impressive. Feel free to share horror stories of reckless dosing to motivate me to test my levels properly. (I do test calcium, alk, and mag, and watch my pH and temp closely, just haven't tested anything trace)
     
    #4 jblue, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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  5. jlanger

    jlanger "The North Remembers"
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    I dose. And I went all in.
    I have an eight pump dosing system on my 120gal; Kamoer four pump master and a four pump slave.

    For the big three (Ca/Alk/Mg), I am currently dosing BRS Soda Ash solution for the alkalinity. My calcium and magnesium hold steady with my weekly water changes with Reef Crystals salt mix. I have my dosing pump set to dose the appropriate amount of solution once per hour over 24 hours for the daily dosage. Setting up these pumps are pretty easy; you enter the daily dose amount, during which hours to dose, any staggered time between pumps and how many times per day to pump the portioned dose.

    I also am dosing Red Sea's NO-POX to keep nitrates and phosphates to a minimum. My latest test results have been very good; nitrates near zero and phosphates at 0.03ppm. The pump is set up to pump the daily dose only once per day.

    In addition, I am dosing the four Red Sea Coral Colors Program supplements. This is where I am trying to determine if these supplements are of any benefit. I have always had good colors from my corals; except for my reds are not as bright red as when under T5 lighting. Since I have not really noticed any real "WOW!" from adding these supplements, I may discontinue dosing them when the bottles run out.
    I do know that my tanks did well when I used to dose Iodine and Strontium supplements. Whether I change to dosing a different supplement, I haven't decided that yet.
    These supplements are set up to pump the daily dose only once per day.

    I also currently manually dose AcroPower; and again I am unsure of the benefits.
    I know I should be adding amino acids to promote good coral health, but I could do so with my feedings or another amino acid supplement. For now, I will continue to manually dose AcroPower twice a week; 20ml.

    After some recent discussion, I think I will be doing another round of extensive testing on my 120gal's water parameters and try to figure out why my acropora spp. corals are not as happy as they should be.
     
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  6. marty9876

    marty9876 Something funny
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    CA and ALK. CA for the rock, ALK to maintain a stable environment. Fish and really low ALK don't work well either.
     
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  7. David Grigor

    David Grigor TCMAS Old Timer
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    I'm a firm believer that for the supplements to work, your tank needs to be deficient. If you tank isn't deficient in those areas, I find it extremely unlikely to find any benefit.

    Li swore by amino acids but his tank is very different from mine. I use a ATS and from what I have read ( becuase I have know way to test ) algae byproduct is amino acids. I went through a whole $70 bottle of KZ Amino Acids and na-da, zip, nothing.

    So especially those things that don't have a good test for, thats the only explanation why one person can swear by it and another gets nothing.
     
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  8. RaysReef

    RaysReef Reefing made easy
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    Mine's easy...*DG Approved* Couple drops of snake oil per week and I'm good
     
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  9. Gary

    Gary Started in '96
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    Mag/Ca/Alk on dosing pumps. 200gal system. Also started dosing Red Sea Iodide. Ran out of Strontium a month ago but haven't noticed any difference. Also using Koralin Zucht Pohls every 3 days, the Zoas open up every time I dose this within minutes.
     
    #9 Gary, Aug 13, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
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  10. David Grigor

    David Grigor TCMAS Old Timer
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    Boiled Chicken Fat is my go to formula.
     
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  11. OP
    mnmuskyman2011

    mnmuskyman2011 I contributed!
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    Finally, the secret is out!!
     
  12. rkolo750

    rkolo750 I contributed!
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    Im really upset David shared the secret........ he told me that a couple years ago when I first met him and man have I seen results!!!

    Besides the chicken fat :micro:

    Along with dosing I think its important to talk about water changes......... I don't do them nearly frequently enough (1 every 3 months give or take a month or so...... :mad:) I am in David's camp, that if you do your water changes frequently enough, you shouldn't need to dose anything at all......... but....... alas........ in my home tanks I am lazy.
    So:
    I occasionally dose Iodine, but very infrequently. I use my anemone as a signal for when I should add some. If it is losing color, not open often, or just not looking up to par, I will add 1/2 the recommended weekly dose from the direction on the bottle. This probably happens once a month?

    I will also occasionally add some kalk to my top off water, again probably 1/2 the recommended dose. I am definitely on the low side, but I mostly keep zoas and ricordea, with just a little bit of Montipora.....
     
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  13. David Grigor

    David Grigor TCMAS Old Timer
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    duplicate.
     
    #13 David Grigor, Aug 14, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  14. David Grigor

    David Grigor TCMAS Old Timer
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    When on the lazy side of water changes:

    It might be a good idea to get a triton test done at least once to be sure nothing is way off or way too low

    or

    a really big water change once a year to get back on track.
     
  15. eyeguy

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    I guess that's the real question.... Is there really a true need for major dosing (say dosing BRS 2 part with dosing pumps etc...) if you're good about water changes? Unless you have a tank full of lps/sps I can't imagine calc/mag dropping to dangerous levels between say like weekly water changes. Alk can drop really fast if not watched so I could definitely see dosing that in between even very frequent water changes.

    I don't dose right now but I have all the gear/supplements to do it. I will be using brs 2 part and have 2 brs dosing pumps mounted in the stand and ready to go. Just waiting to get to a high enough coral load in the tank to make it worthwhile.

    My take is if it's not something easily testable (aka calc, mag, alk, pH), it's not worth adding to your tank to fix it. I use to dose things like iodine, strontium (which yes I know are testable but most people don't test for them and you have to search a little harder to find the test kits), and other combo supplements and I know for a fact I overshot some of those things to unhealthy levels at times (and killed corals, fish, etc...) because I didn't know where the level of each was at in my tank.
     
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  16. briguy350

    briguy350 Senior Member
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    just kalk here on a dosing pump controlled by my APEX. keeps my PH up and corals are happy. try to do %30 water changes every 2-3 weeks.
     
  17. jlanger

    jlanger "The North Remembers"
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    Here's an update to my dosing practices as I've changed it up quite a bit.
    Actually, a lot more than just dosing has changed.
    I found out that the reason for poor acropora health was due to my salinity reaching 1.031+ from an old bottle of calibration fluid. I lowered my salinity and things are starting to turn around for the better.
    But I did change my dosing procedures.

    I have stopped using Reef Crystals for my salt mix; couldn't stand the brown residue any longer.
    I am currently going through a bucket of Red Sea Pro Salt to see how that fares.
    I do have a box of the hw MarineMix Reefers salt mix on stand by. I wanted to try this salt mix first, but I already had the Red Sea salt mix.

    Dosing pumps... gone; actually sold.
    Once the Red Sea Coral Colors supplements started to run out, I decided to quit dosing those. I couldn't really see any improved colors with my corals since I started dosing.
    No longer needing eight dosing pumps, I decided to sell the Kamoer dosing system and I will replace the pumps with a Neptune Aquatics DOS pump soon.

    I am currently manually dosing the BRS 2-part Soda Ash for alkalinity; with daily testing.
    My system is consuming about 1.8 ounces of solution per day.
    Testing the calcium uptake will take another couple of weeks, as I am testing weekly.

    Red Sea NO-POX has been discontinued also. No reason, other than I haven't manually dosed it.

    AcroPower also ran out and hasn't been replaced.

    I let my system just run for a couple of weeks without a barrage of supplements; a purge/cleanse so-to-speak.
    I did dose the soda ash solution to maintain the alkalinity.

    This past week I started a new dosing program using the hw Weigandt products; coincide with new salt mix.
    I am currently manually dosing three of their supplements; biotip (amino acids/vitamins), strontip (strontium) and iodtip (iodine).
    In the past, I had great results when I was dosing a strontium and iodine supplement. I also wanted to keep dosing an amino acid based additive for coral health.
    So far, so good. The manually dosing of the supplements has actually been beneficial for me; more aware of what and how much I'm dosing.

    I'll patiently wait a while before I determine if this new method is doing anything for my system.
     
  18. tomte25

    tomte25 Junior Member
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    Anyone dosing trace phosphorus and nitrate? I had zero of both with a bad dinos problem. After reading an article on stump remover dosing for dinos, I tried it along with removing some of my sand (didn’t have a deep bed). I licked the dinos and my corals gained color. I’m not sure how much to afford to the dosing. But I was really happy to see the end of the dinos.

    And I just noticed this thread is really old...oh well.
     
  19. jlanger

    jlanger "The North Remembers"
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    Thanks for bringing this thread back to light; especially for this...

    This article was written back in 2008 about dosing certain elements for coral coloration.

    "Reds/Pinks and some Purples

    Primarily for coloring reds and pinks in Montiporas, Pocilloporas, Birdsnest, other Stys and Seriatoporas. The supplement is Potassium (not potassium iodide). If you are using a high potassium salt mix such as Oceanic, Tropical Marine Pro and you are doing regular water changes, you are more than likely not going to need to supplement this much.

    For dosing you can use your monitporas, especially caps as indicators. Supplementing is required when Montiporas display slower growth and appear washed out to grey appearance. Indicators on Stys and Pocs are when they look like they have been exposed to air. Polyps are completely withdrawn and colors are light. Other indicators of potassium deficiency is when the pinks turn into a light brown and when acroporas loose their color and get lighter and pale. A major potassium deficiency is seen when tissue is lost, mostly starting from the base opposed to spotting (patchy look). And overdose can lead to tip burning so don’t mistake tip burn for new growth. Tips burns will be white with no polyps."

    -Ryan Gripp; 2008


    It was quite illuminating read that deficient potassium levels would be indicated by struggling montipora corals. This was exactly what had happened to my 120gal system last fall/winter. My corals turned the silvery/grey color and eventually lost all of the tissue and polyps. It wasn't until I sent in a water test to Triton and viewed the results that I found out that I had extremely low potassium levels.
    I haven't decided yet if plating montipora corals will be allowed in the new system, but now that I know for certain what my issues were last year, I might bring them back and grow some more monster colonies!
     
  20. RSnodgrass

    RSnodgrass TCMAS President
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    I wonder if this wouldn't impact color for things like favia or blastos... it's sounding like a possibility.

    Description seems to match.
     

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