New Tank Plumbing into Fish Room -need help

Discussion in 'Tank Builds' started by nessjosh, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. nessjosh

    nessjosh Senior Member
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    Looking for some insight. I'm going to have a 120g in my basement family room, which is currently unfinished. Concrete floor and ceilings are open (truss joists). How do I plumb my tank so my sump is in the fish tank room/ utility room. I'm assuming that the sump and the display tank will be at the same level, so I cant do a gravity drain. Unless that is what I need to do, then I'll chop up the concrete and run the return lines in the floor. Since that isn't the most efficient form of installing water lines i'd like to consider running them straight up from the tank, through the ceiling joists and then over and down into the sump/tank room 25' away.

    Issues: I'm guessing I cant find a powerful enough pump to leave in the overflow box in the display tank to just push the water into the other room. Unless someone has a pump in mind.

    Resolution: I put a mini sump or holding sump under the display tank that houses just a return pump to the fish room and a drain line from the display tank. As shown in the drawing.

    How do I then get the same water flow back to the display tank from the sump, so that the display tank doesn't over flow or that the sump below doesn't over flow. Will my back flow section of the SUMP/tank room, need to be smaller than the back flow area of the sump/under the display tank?

    What happens if one of the two return pumps fails? Am I still safe?

    Thanks for helping me out with the new tank design.

    See the attached PDF drawing...
     

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  2. ikserk

    ikserk Administrator
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    where is the fish room in relation to the display tank?
     
  3. ikserk

    ikserk Administrator
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    essentially, the tank under the display tank becomes your "sump".

    the display tank and the "sump" with the socks and skimmer will act as a second "display tank". I know that sounds confusing but stay with me.

    the sump with the skimmer needs to gravity drain to the sump beneath the display tank. you only need one return pump and that'd be in the tank beneath the display tank and it pumps water to both the display tank and thesump with the skimmer.l

    in terms of flood safety, the only thing you'll need to account for in this setup is having the tank beneath the display be large enough to handle the backflow from both the display tank and the sump with the skimmer.

    also, evaporation will show itself in the lowest tank, so your ATO (if its based on water level) will need to be setup on the tank below the display.

    again, i know that this is confusing when written out, but ask questions where you are confused.
     
  4. ikserk

    ikserk Administrator
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    also, if you are doing mechanical filtration like filter socks, it'd make sense to also put those in the tank beneath the display tank. otherwise you'd have a build up of detritus over time that same from the display tank that did not get pumped up to the "sump"
     
  5. OP
    nessjosh

    nessjosh Senior Member
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    the fish room is in the utility room/ same lower level, just 25 feet away. So the plumbing would go across the ceiling of the family room downstairs and drop down into the fishroom sump.
     
  6. OP
    nessjosh

    nessjosh Senior Member
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    Is there a way to remove the sump under the display tank and put in a closed loop/line pump? So gravity drops the drain line to the pump and the pump pushes it into the ceiling and over to the fishroom sump?
     
  7. ikserk

    ikserk Administrator
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    no way to run the plumbing through walls along the floor instead?
     
  8. OP
    nessjosh

    nessjosh Senior Member
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    That makes sense except for the part where the "sump w/skimmer needs to gravity drain to the sump under the display tank" = Can I do a gravity drain overhead through the trusses and down into the display tank sump? (it makes sense when you siphon water to clean your tank and dump it into a 5gal pail) How do I keep that siphon or create it if I lose it when its hard plumbed from the fishroom sump to the display tank sump? That's where I thought I'd need a secondary pump to keep that siphon going.
     
  9. OP
    nessjosh

    nessjosh Senior Member
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    Nope, the tank will sit between a sliding glass door and a window, which then has 2 doors between the windown and the fishtank room. Its either gotta go up or down thru the concrete.
    I wanted to use the fish tank room so I don't need to drag filter socks and skimmer much through the family room. Also I could then do a water change more easily too by dumping my new water into the fish tank room sump.
     
  10. Riley

    Riley I contributed!
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    In a sense you are trying to do this, except way overhead and across your basement:
    [​IMG]



    Truthfully, I wouldn't attempt this. You might get it to work sort of okay - once. Too many factors to go wrong. Your best bet would be to either move the tank to share the common wall as the utility room, then go through the wall. Your other option would be to have a sump below your tank like everyone else. Drymate mats to put in the working area during maintenance would catch any drips. Filter socks and skimmer cup could be carried with a bucket to your sink.

    Running lines through the concrete floor sounds too drastic for something that probably won't be there 10 years from now.
     
  11. cypho

    cypho I contributed!
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    There are a number of ways you could make a sump in the fishroom work with the plumbing in the ceiling. But they are all going to add more headache and more mess than you will save. So what is the point?

    If you can't / really don't want to move the tank, here is my suggestion.

    1 - Forget about having a "sump" in the fish room. The one and only sump is in under the tank.

    2 - Run a bunch of 1/4" flexible RO tubing lines through ceiling from the fishroom to the sump. Also run a pair of 1" pipes through the ceiling from the sump to the fish room.

    2 - The fish room will have:
    • RODI filter
    • RODI Water storage
    • Salt Water storage
    • Ca/Alk dosing containers.
    • A bunch of peristaltic pumps
    • Sump Pump
    • Inline filters such as activated carbon, GFO, UV, chaeto reactor, chiller, heater, etc (almost anything other than the protein skimmer can be setup inline)
    3 - In-line filtration / Sump pump. In the fish room. A pump on the floor in the fish room will suck water through the 1" pipe from the sump into the fish room. (if the pump is lower than the waterlevel in the sump you won't have to re-prime the pump each time the pump turns off) Once in the fish room the water will pass through all of your inline filters, then it will return back to the tank through the other 1" pipe.

    All of these filters (and even the main sump pump ) are in the fish room so you can clean them without making a mess in the family room. As long as the pipe diameter is large enough (can always go bigger if you worry 1" is too small) there is no head loss caused by relocating the pump and inline filters far from the tank. You can use exactly the same pump as you would use if everything was located under the tank.

    4 - Topoff: peristaltic pump will pump RODI water though 1/4" tubing from storage in fishroom into sump. (in theory you could inject the top off water into the inline filtration loop, but a dedicated line is safer.)

    5 - Water Changes: one peristaltic pump will pump Saltwater from fishroom into the sump, another peristaltic pump will suck Saltwater from sump into drain. (again could add/remove the water to/from inline filtration loop, but a dedicated lines are safer)

    6 - Dosing: peristaltic pumps will pump supplements from containers in fishroom into sump (again you could inject into the inline filtration loop, but ...)

    7 - Skimmer - It is in the sump, but you can set it up so you never have to clean it.
    • Install a Swabbie on the skimmer (located in sump under stand) so the neck always stays clean.
    • Install a drain on the skimmer cup and plumb it to either drain into the sewer (prefered) or outside (should be easy since this is an exterior wall).
    • Use another peristaltic pump in the fish room to pump water into the skimmer collection cup to help flush the gunk down the drain. Also a might as well send the RO waste water down this line too.
    8 - Mechanical filtration - You really don't need any mechanical filtration, so you could just skip the mechanical filter (filter sock is a type of mechanical filter). OR...
    • Use a Automatic Roller Mat in the sump, you will still have to clean it, but only a few times per year.
    • Use a canister filter in the fish room as part of the inline filter loop.
    • Use a sand filter in the fish room as part of the inline filter loop. (sand filters are awesome, but probably overkill for a tank that is only 120 gallons)
    So you don't have a sump in the fish room. But you should not need to touch anything in the sump more than a few times per year.
     
  12. OP
    nessjosh

    nessjosh Senior Member
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    Thanks for the insight Cypho, I like your idea. I think I'll implement some of them. But I'd still like to connect the two tanks together somehow. The display in the family room to the fishroom sump (or 2nd display in the fishroom). I'm wondering if I leverage two pumps still and two check valves so I don't lose suction. One of the issues is that if one pump stalls the other one is pumping too much one way. Unless they had a pump that had two outlets and two inlets and when it pumped one way it pumped the same amount of water the other way.

    Still in the design phase, so thanks for your input. I like the remote dosing idea.
     

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