UV spectrum & reef lighting.

Discussion in 'Equipment: Setup and Discussion' started by RSnodgrass, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. RSnodgrass

    RSnodgrass TCMAS President
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    Now that I'm figuring out the dynamics of using my lights in an Apex environment I'm wondering...

    Has anyone adjusted their uv spectrum to be higher then the other blue channels. Effectively lowering whites and blues proportionally to allow the uv to be more dominant?

    It's already been well documented to increase the fluorescence if anyone saw the MACNA talk. Has me wondering if it should/could proportionately have them run a little higher for better results.

    Ecotech radions are my lights.
     
  2. DarkSky

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    Interested in this as well. Dana Riddle has stated that UV-A can be used for photosynthesis and will affect coloration in corals, and he's exploring the PUR levels for UV bulbs over aquariums.
     
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  3. OP
    RSnodgrass

    RSnodgrass TCMAS President
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    The article he wrote here https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/9/aafeature,
    which he had linked in that thread is very telling. The light wavelengths that causes excitation on his extensive list of acropora predominantly fall between 400-525nm. Lots of other good information as well. The handful of soft coral skew towards the 500's it seems while hard corals concentrate (50% of his sample size) between 475-525nm.

    I charted the number of corals that fell into 25pt ranges of the excitation spectrum totalling all 103 coral sampled (including acros). Additionally I plotted a second time the 25 acros sampled and adjusted scaling for visability.
    20190119024827.jpg

    The wavelength needed for the various proteins in the coral to excite are apparently very specific to each one, above or below that number and you get no reaction. Intensity also plays a role, possibly somewhat separate from photosynthesis so the par could be different or the same as far as I know. You mentioned he has seen photosynthetic process at these wavelengths, not sure if that plays into efficiency. As such this is not to be is not to be confused with zooxanthellae and the photosynthetic process, someone else can comment on that if they want.

    Green light is a color that can cause a dramatic color shift in some coral, either turning them red or removing all fluorescence. I'd bet this is what happened with a bright chartreuse mushroom I have. I've seen it anywhere from midnight black (and healthy) to extraordinarily bright chartreuse. They specifically colored up when I dropped the green spectrum if I recall. Others however could be the opposite. His MACNA talk showed a lobo, I believe, going from green coloration to Christmas red.

    The radion G4 xr30w pro uses a 405 & 415nm LED chips but at 25% of the royal blue power output. and above so it's by in large missing or possibly under powering 15% of the total sample group & 25% of the acros sampled who showed excitation below 425nm. Chart below is a typical output program as I understand it and what Reefbuilders reported.
    14937774592_47456ce9ec_o.jpg
     
    #3 RSnodgrass, Jan 19, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  4. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    If I overdrive the UV on my Radions I'll specifically be raising this section of excitation relative to the other wavelengths in much the same way people do buy supplementing with t5 coral blue plus bulbs. Difference is that coral blue maintains spectrum below 400nm as well.
    1432302350.png

    Blue plus in white
    Screenshot_20190804-165904.png
     
    #4 RSnodgrass, Jan 19, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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    RSnodgrass

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    I had a thought... many of the spectral graphics out there show these smooth flowing mountain charts and I came across one that wasn't.

    In a Dan Riddle publication he referred to the excitation of chroma proteins (color pop) required a very precise wavelength for each individual species of coral...

    How precise are LED's stated spectrum or is there meaningful spill over to other wavelengths? Are the smooth charts for simple user understanding or is a stated wavelength exactly that and nothing more?
     
  6. OP
    RSnodgrass

    RSnodgrass TCMAS President
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    I think this could be fascinating.

    According to BRS today...
    "This is a really good question. We actually had a couple of reps from Kessil in last week that discussed this. Generally speaking, if you just had a single LED type, you'd see just the one spike, very similar to a bar graph as you mentioned. Since aquarium LED manufacturers use many different LED types and different numbers of each type, there are peaks and valleys. The display of most spectrometers will show that flowing mountain type graph that you've described, but I think it's fair to say that the bar style graph would be more precise, just harder to read for most reefers.

    Another interesting tidbit is that Kessil actually calibrates each of their fixtures before shipping them so that they do emit light at exactly the right wavelength. For me, that super important, because if I add another fixture to my tank down the line, I need them to all appear to be the same spectrum.
    "

    Based on a graphic I saw of a t5 blue + blub it does still have specific wavelengths that peak out but ultimately is emitting usable light in the surrounding wavelengths as well. I think (if what brs is suggesting is accurate) this is why a t5 is possible so successful at bringing out the color of some corals leds do not.

    LED's can peg the optimal wavelengths for photosynthesis while the t5 can more broadly hit the various wavelengths to activate the highly specific color chroma proteins individual wavelengths.

    Agree or disagree? Additionally thoughs?
     
    #6 RSnodgrass, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
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    RSnodgrass

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    Was directed to a thread from Dana Riddle and it shows leds peaking at their stated number and producing par ~25nm give or take. However this is a pretty steep drop off and can be seen on the orphic site as well.

    The left peak is from a 410nm uv led and you can see it drops off quickly to 380nm so likely half intensity by 395nm.
    Screenshot_20190806-201413.png
     
    #7 RSnodgrass, Aug 6, 2019
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  8. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Here's an blue plus... actinic dips more to the 380nm.
    Screenshot_20190806-202323.png

    For comparison here's natural sunlight in the ocean at different depths... an exact recreation of this would be natural but not as colorful. Measurements are not identical but it's the best I could find to get a sense of it.
    kt167nb66r_fig021.gif
     
  9. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Going to be using a 500 series par meter.
    Reading through apogee's data they show a -12.7% error rate for specifically blue leds (448nm peak) in our normal spectrum with the 100 series.
    A -79.1% error on red leds used by radions.
    A proportional error on a combination blue and red.
    * these error rates can then be magnified when you multiply for the error rate of being under water!

    Alternatively the 500 series is more than 3% off.

    This blew my mind... I had no idea it was that big of an error rate and would make it easy for me (possibly a major contribution to my lighting woahs) to burn a coral.
     
  10. OP
    RSnodgrass

    RSnodgrass TCMAS President
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    These error rates are specific to LED's, T5's and halides read very accurately.

    Also makes me wonder why... why would a light sensor read an LED differently (on the low end) and why would I not conclude that a coral could also respond to this light differently (not a positive or negative assumption).
    *crazy rambling, it's probably just a sensor thing.

    Above my pay grade.
     
    #10 RSnodgrass, Aug 9, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  11. VikingsCrazy

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    Sanjay said that the majority of corals are equipped to absorb EVERY color. He did not say what each color did for the coral. But did say why would we not give them every color. He says he ramps his lights up and down every day but not for a long period. He runs all colors for the majority of the day and actually dials his blues back not whites like most people do in the AM and PM. He said the ramping period is more important at night if you are trying to get fish to spawn. His fish spawn every night like clock work as the light ramps down.
     
    #11 VikingsCrazy, Aug 11, 2019
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  12. Nickz

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    You may want to look at that data again... The 79% was the 100 series, not the 500 series. The only difference between them is the 500 series has most of the calculations built in
     
  13. VikingsCrazy

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    He did state that the blue spectrum is what is attributed to florescent. But that the coral can absorb all colors of the spectrum at once so there is no need to give them more of any one color unless you are looking for a desired visual effect. And if he did not lose me entirely at that point I believe visual affect was based more on how the light bounces off the coral or any object in the aquarium for that matter. Now I am rambling. Sorry folks!
     
  14. OP
    RSnodgrass

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    Right that's the 100 series vs the 500 series. I may not have written it clearly...
     

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