Help With 120g Return Design. (1 Viewer)

[FreshtoSalt]

Hi,

As some of you know, I just acquired a 120g to upgrade my 55g FW tank. Although I wanted a 5', I found a great deal on a Fatboy that I couldn't pass. Thanks again for all the PM's and leads!

Anyway, now I am done with the sump, and ready to start cementing all my PVC lines. The thing is that I would like some mental support on this before I commit to my current configuration:

So, here we go:

-It is a 4x2x2' Fatboy with two overflows, 120g.
-Each overflow has a 3/4" and a 1" BH.
-One overflow is to be the intake overflow, while the other is to be the return overflow.
-Herbie method, 3/4" BH is the siphon line (based on Beananimal's calcs, it should be sufficient flow for my Eheim 1262 at ~4' head)
-1" BH is for the emergency open intake line.
-Intake lines come into the left side of the 20g sump, into a sock via a soft hose (not installed yet), this chamber is where I am going to put all my airstones for oxygenation of the water.
-Next a series of baffles take the dirty yet oxygenated water through some foam pads, and polishing pads (not installed yet)
-Then, the mechanically filtered and oxygenated water will make it to the center baffle, where the heaters, canister filter and carbon reactor (for biological and chemical filtration) will pick up water and return it.
-Finally, the clean water will make it to the return section, where the Eheim 1262 will send it back thought the return overflow.

Here is where I am a little concerned that I did the return plumbing right:

-Pump gets the water to a T, via a soft hose. One side goes to sump again via another soft hose (not installed yet) just in case I need to relieve the intake overflow a little, this is managed by a gate valve. The other side of the T takes water through a check valve and into the return overflow.
-All is 3/4" line, so at the 1" BH I just introduced a reducer and adapter, and the line stays as 3/4" in the overflow.
-One of the 3/4" overflow return lines dumps the water in the DT directly.
-Other overflow line is split in two, one dumps in DT also, while a reduced 1/2" line goes to the bottom of the overflow box to keep the water from being stagnant there.

So, any comments or suggestions on this return design? You think this mess is going to work? This is my first build, so any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the phone pictures, I can definitely take more shots if needed.

Thanks in advance!

 

[hypertech]

You do not need air stones or filter pads. Surface agitation and a protein skimmer provide plenty of oxygenation. The filter pads provide marginal filtration at the cost of a maintenance headache. Better off without them.

Also, dump the canister filter and get a protein skimmer. Same reason.

Last, I really can't tell what you have going on in the picture. For a herbie drain on a tank with 2 holes, both are going to be used for the drain and the return is going to have to go over the top.

 

[FreshtoSalt]

Thanks for the reply!
This is a FW set-up, so a skimmer seems to be overkill (based on my research, not my experience) hence why I was thinking that the socks and pads would be sufficient for mechanical filtration without excessive maintenance, and the air stones being enough for oxygenation, supplemented by the surface agitation the returns will produce. If I have to, I can add a Vortech type power head too. Otherwise I would definitely go with your suggestion, which is what I will do in my SW here in a few months.
The canister filter will truly produce bio-filtration, not mechanical really, that is why I had it take-in water after the pads in the baffles, to keep the bio media as clean as possible... no LR in FW!
There are actually 4 holes in this tank, 2 in each overflow box, that is why I went with a drainage overflow and a return overflow. But I am worried that I am missing something, as far as my routing goes, to keep water flowing in the return overflow box, while keeping most of it going directly into the DT.
I know this is mostly a SW club, but wanted insight on the plumbing more than anything, same concepts there...
Hopefully these additional pictures help understand the mess... lol

Thanks!

You do not need air stones or filter pads. Surface agitation and a protein skimmer provide plenty of oxygenation. The filter pads provide marginal filtration at the cost of a maintenance headache. Better off without them.

Also, dump the canister filter and get a protein skimmer. Same reason.

Last, I really can't tell what you have going on in the picture. For a herbie drain on a tank with 2 holes, both are going to be used for the drain and the return is going to have to go over the top.

 

[TriggerFreak]

Sweet! where'd you find the tank? and equipment?

 

[FreshtoSalt]

Hey, man!
One of the members here contacted me because he wanted to get rid of it, so I jumped on it!
Found the sump at petco for like $29 on Black Friday, all the other stuff came from BRS and Menards...
I need some lights still, but that is another can of worms that I am scared of opening! together with the plumbing... :brick1:
Thanks for all that good info at your shop man. Once I get this upgrade done, I will start with my SW adventure!

Sweet! where'd you find the tank? and equipment?

 

[reeffamily]

why aren't you doing two returns and two overflows in a herbie method? worked great on both my 120 fatboys

 

[FreshtoSalt]

Please explain a little more what you mean, I don't understand yet. One return coming through each overflow, and then a siphon drain in one, and emergency drain in the other? If it worked for you I want to know! :beerchug:

why aren't you doing two returns and two overflows in a herbie method? worked great on both my 120 fatboys

 

[David Grigor]

Research the Herbie and convert the left side. Doesn't matter is Salt or Freshwater the Herbie will work well. What you have now on the left side is going to gurgle and make noise.

 

[irish02bk]

agree, herbie is the way to go for a "silent" fish tank...

 

[FreshtoSalt]

Agreed!
It is a Herbie! just haven't installed the soft hose to the sock yet, but the output of the siphon line will be under water, also the intake for the herbie needs to be lowered in the overflow box, just not finished yet. It will be 6" below the top of overflow box. Sorry, I am bad at explaining stuff (English is my 2nd language).

Research the Herbie and convert the left side. Doesn't matter is Salt or Freshwater the Herbie will work well. What you have now on the left side is going to gurgle and make noise.

 

[FreshtoSalt]

Ok, here you can see the herbie main siphon line with the gate valve, going in the sock that will be mostly submerged. Also, you can see the emergency open drain pipe. All of this coming from one overflow box.

Here you can see the return lines going into the other overflow box, but with a T to get some of the return water back in the sump if necessary.

 

[Neil]

where did you get that nice plumbing from?

 

[FreshtoSalt]

It is Schedule 80 PVC. Most of it I got at BRS and the rest at Menards. Menards doesn't carry the good gate valves and check-valves with unions, but they do have a bunch of the fittings, elbows and stuff. For the valves I would go through BRS.

where did you get that nice plumbing from?

 

[zocr-AZ]

Only thing that I saw (and shouldn't make a huge difference) is the double 90's in the emergency line. It looks like (from the pic) that you could get away with 2 45's instead.

The reason I bring it up is because if something absolutely catastrophic happened (or FW snails invaded...) you would be able to have the double 90's back up easier than than the 45's.

Looks good otherwise :beerchug:

 

[reeffamily]

one herbie return on each side and a feed from both sides. if you want then you can do a tee at the top of the feeds to put two feeds in the tank per side. covers over the returns and nothing can get in to block the drains

 

[FreshtoSalt]

Yep, initially I had 45's there for the potential zombie snail invasion lol, but then I started to wanna "tuck" everything as high as possible to easily do maintenance on the sump. I might go back to 45's though, since I do have a union there that I can use when maintenance is required. Either way, I should put a strainer at the top of the emergency drain, that will definitely keep anything big from getting in there and clogging it.

Thank you!

Only thing that I saw (and shouldn't make a huge difference) is the double 90's in the emergency line. It looks like (from the pic) that you could get away with 2 45's instead.

The reason I bring it up is because if something absolutely catastrophic happened (or FW snails invaded...) you would be able to have the double 90's back up easier than than the 45's.

Looks good otherwise :beerchug:

 

[FreshtoSalt]

Ok, I though that is what you meant. So the last question would be, both of your drainage lines are a full siphon to the sump from each of the different overflow boxes? with a gate valve each?
Or one is the siphon with gate valve from one overflow box, and the other an open pipe, with no valve (emergency drain), from the other overflow box...

one herbie return on each side and a feed from both sides. if you want then you can do a tee at the top of the feeds to put two feeds in the tank per side. covers over the returns and nothing can get in to block the drains