News from your BOD (1 Viewer)

[zakroctj]

Thank you for clearing that up. It must have been just a coincidence that I have seen caps lately.

 

[acharpenter]

Dang - y'all replied while I was adding to my last post - ugh - too slow here

 

[thou]

$2.50 per month is not a lot, but realistically not every one will join. Just think of how many people have said the classifieds were their gateway to tcmas, so closing the doors will only lessen the chances of members...never a good business practice in my opinion.

 

[sleeri]

The next meeting after mine has no cap - just an RSVP so he knows how much pizza to order

David Grigor NEVER puts a cap on his meetings (I heard of one meeting where they were concerned the floor might fall through due to the amount of attendee's).


I state those facts just off the top of my head knowledge - if I went to look at the current list of upcoming meetings - I don't think ANY have caps.

Excellent, this was one of my concerns. Glad to hear we don't need to worry about competing for spots at a meeting. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[.Marshall]

$2.50 per month is not a lot, but realistically not every one will join. Just think of how many people have said the classifieds were their gateway to tcmas, so closing the doors will only lessen the chances of members...never a good business practice in my opinion.

I'm willing to bet, most newbies come to TCMAS for the knowledge and to ask questions on "how can I maintain a saltwater aquarium in my house?" before they come to actually buy saltwater aquarium equipment, or at least that's how it worked for me.

Google; Minnesota, Saltwater, and Aquarium in any order and see what comes up. People just don't go out and buy saltwater aquarium equipment without knowing what they are doing.

My .02

 

[a1t2o]

The only way to change the classifieds back to completely open access is by majority member vote at a business meeting.

I just want to highlight that so members don't think we are just ignoring your thoughts - we are listening but again - in order to make another change - we need a majority member vote at a business meeting

Even if I were to host a couple of meetings down here to attain membership and voting rights it still doesn't mean anything unless I'm able to go to the business meetings. For me thats a two hour drive just to vote. Can't there be business meetings to decide what gets put up to vote then have the vote take place on the website? Because right now, location seems to matter more than effort.

People have mentioned that there was a meeting in owatonna and burnsville recently, but I don't think they realize that burnsville is an hour and twenty to thirty minutes away and owatonna is 45 minutes away. It's not that practical to think that the club can stay the same with the club meetings as the main focus and still expect to grow using the internet.

If face to face is the only thing that is important, then find a space to have regularly scheduled meetings. The same location (like a community center) to use between everyother week to twice a week. Then onone can complain about what happens to the forum, because then you are saying that face to face is important and finally acting like it too.

BTW the main reason I'm upset about this is because it feels like a small group (35-40 people) got together and decided for the rest of us (currently the site reads 2629 members) I didn't even know about the meeting cause most of that information is given out in the members only section. And I would like to attend more meetings, but I want to do so for the sake of being there not to obtain a membership. Now I'm not sure if its even worth it.

 

[mnmuskyman2011]

Even if I were to host a couple of meetings down here to attain membership and voting rights it still doesn't mean anything unless I'm able to go to the business meetings. For me thats a two hour drive just to vote. Can't there be business meetings to decide what gets put up to vote then have the vote take place on the website? Because right now, location seems to matter more than effort.

People have mentioned that there was a meeting in owatonna and burnsville recently, but I don't think they realize that burnsville is an hour and twenty to thirty minutes away and owatonna is 45 minutes away. It's not that practical to think that the club can stay the same with the club meetings as the main focus and still expect to grow using the internet.

If face to face is the only thing that is important, then find a space to have regularly scheduled meetings. The same location (like a community center) to use between everyother week to twice a week. Then onone can complain about what happens to the forum, because then you are saying that face to face is important and finally acting like it too.

BTW the main reason I'm upset about this is because it feels like a small group (35-40 people) got together and decided for the rest of us (currently the site reads 2629 members) I didn't even know about the meeting cause most of that information is given out in the members only section. And I would like to attend more meetings, but I want to do so for the sake of being there not to obtain a membership. Now I'm not sure if its even worth it.

It has always been that you have to attend meetings to become a member. That isn't new. What is new is that only members can post in the classifieds. But there is also other benefits to becoming a member coming up also like mentioned a few times before:

An outline of the benefits members, lifetime members and supporters will be able to enjoy now and in the very near future are outlined as follows:
Members, Lifetime Members, and TCMAS Supporters will have the following benefits:

• Participate in monthly raffles and give-aways
• Free admission to workshops
• Free table at our expo's
• Certain additional options on the new forum which we will launch at the same time we implement the changes.
• A free entry in our “Yellow Pages” (A new directory - launched with the re-designed forum) This is for members to advertise any non-reef related business or services that they offer.
• Access to the classifieds. You will be able to see the sales and contact the seller however, if you want to post a for sale/wanting to buy thread you need a minimum post count of 50.

 

[NorthSide Reef]

Not true -

My last meeting had 70+ members - the only reason I have a cap this time around is because the 2nd floor is being remodeled - I can guarantee you my next one wont have cap :biggthumpup:

The next meeting after mine has no cap - just an RSVP so he knows how much pizza to order

David Grigor NEVER puts a cap on his meetings (I heard of one meeting where they were concerned the floor might fall through due to the amount of attendee's).


I state those facts just off the top of my head knowledge - if I went to look at the current list of upcoming meetings - I don't think ANY have caps.

We strive for 2 meetings per month within the club - the new meeting list just started - look at how many are already lined up - more will come

lol glad I choose a summer date then, you all are going to be outside (well inside first, then Outside with ya's)

 

[a1t2o]

It has always been that you have to attend meetings to become a member. That isn't new. What is new is that only members can post in the classifieds. But there is also other benefits to becoming a member coming up also like mentioned a few times before:

An outline of the benefits members, lifetime members and supporters will be able to enjoy now and in the very near future are outlined as follows:
Members, Lifetime Members, and TCMAS Supporters will have the following benefits:

• Participate in monthly raffles and give-aways
• Free admission to workshops
• Free table at our expo's
• Certain additional options on the new forum which we will launch at the same time we implement the changes.
• A free entry in our “Yellow Pages” (A new directory - launched with the re-designed forum) This is for members to advertise any non-reef related business or services that they offer.
• Access to the classifieds. You will be able to see the sales and contact the seller however, if you want to post a for sale/wanting to buy thread you need a minimum post count of 50.

I know that, my point is that this club has become so much more than a few people meeting once in a while. It just seems like the original members of the club want to "get back to basics" and are trying to force everyone else to do the same. If that is what they want then there are better ways to do it then taking away privileges from people who have been around for a few years and have done nothing to deserve the taking away of those privileges. I understand you want people to contribute in two ways. With money so the club can do more and themselves so that they add to the community. But I say that I am adding to the online community by sharing my experiences, and if I don't attend these meetings and events then it doesn't cost anyone else anything, so what does that take away from the club?

In the situation that people buy into the club but don't attend then you have people paying for other club members to go have fun, and it seems to me that most of the people with the strong feeling towards this change being a good thing are the people that would benefit from an increased club budget.

 

[Fletch]

Are there ever any meeting that count towards a membership at a lfs? That seems like it would be a little more inviting to new members.

 

[acharpenter]

Even if I were to host a couple of meetings down here to attain membership and voting rights it still doesn't mean anything unless I'm able to go to the business meetings. For me thats a two hour drive just to vote. Can't there be business meetings to decide what gets put up to vote then have the vote take place on the website? Because right now, location seems to matter more than effort.

BTW the main reason I'm upset about this is because it feels like a small group (35-40 people) got together and decided for the rest of us (currently the site reads 2629 members) I didn't even know about the meeting cause most of that information is given out in the members only section. And I would like to attend more meetings, but I want to do so for the sake of being there not to obtain a membership. Now I'm not sure if its even worth it.

Yes - there is a way to obtain a vote in absence - you become a premium member.

The way I became a premium member - is I served on the BOD

You can totally run for any position - and I encourage you to do so.

95-99% of the BOD's work is done online - we have maybe 2 meeting's a year you would have to travel to in order to hold a BOD position. On that note - you could also be Skyped in so in effect - you can be on the BOD from wherever. I mean our president does a ton of work for this club and more often than not - he is in another country.

I TOTALLY encourage you to run


The business meeting that was posted had a huge audience - the 30-40 that showed up are the ones who had already invested time into the club in order to be members. MANY more could have showed and taken the vote another way - they did'nt.


I do not agree with someone donating $30.00 allows them access to vote the future of our club. The future of our club should be decided by those that are able and want to and DO participate.

Knowing there are some that cannot attend meetings to due time, location etc - we put out the option to become a full members outside of having voting rights by donating $30.00 to the club - so that they WOULD NOT be left without a way to gain access to everything other than voting rights.

lol glad I choose a summer date then, you all are going to be outside (well inside first, then Outside with ya's)

I am so putting you on the calendar now dude!

I know that, my point is that this club has become so much more than a few people meeting once in a while. It just seems like the original members of the club want to "get back to basics" and are trying to force everyone else to do the same. If that is what they want then there are better ways to do it then taking away privileges from people who have been around for a few years and have done nothing to deserve the taking away of those privileges. I understand you want people to contribute in two ways. With money so the club can do more and themselves so that they add to the community. But I say that I am adding to the online community by sharing my experiences, and if I don't attend these meetings and events then it doesn't cost anyone else anything, so what does that take away from the club?

In the situation that people buy into the club but don't attend then you have people paying for other club members to go have fun, and it seems to me that most of the people with the strong feeling towards this change being a good thing are the people that would benefit from an increased club budget.

If we were trying to get back to the old days you are speaking of - we would have never allowed people to gain full access outside of voting rights by donating a nominal fee

If we wanted to make sure it stayed face to face only - we could have just shut down the classifieds to members only and not offered the supporter option of access via a donation




Not sure if everyone keeps ignoring the fact that this change was voted on by members - and cannot be reversed other than by members?

We have not shut down this thread as it is giving many members voice to opinions, comments etc that we do want to hear - but again - NO CHANGE CAN BE MADE to the changes coming outlined in the OP - other than at a business meeting

Are there ever any meeting that count towards a membership at a lfs? That seems like it would be a little more inviting to new members.

YES - DA just hosted a food making party a couple months ago - any sponsor can host a meeting that counts towards membership

Usually they appreciate someone outside of the store to facilitate it as they have enough going on

 

[mnmuskyman2011]

I know that, my point is that this club has become so much more than a few people meeting once in a while. It just seems like the original members of the club want to "get back to basics" and are trying to force everyone else to do the same. If that is what they want then there are better ways to do it then taking away privileges from people who have been around for a few years and have done nothing to deserve the taking away of those privileges. I understand you want people to contribute in two ways. With money so the club can do more and themselves so that they add to the community. But I say that I am adding to the online community by sharing my experiences, and if I don't attend these meetings and events then it doesn't cost anyone else anything, so what does that take away from the club?

In the situation that people buy into the club but don't attend then you have people paying for other club members to go have fun, and it seems to me that most of the people with the strong feeling towards this change being a good thing are the people that would benefit from an increased club budget.

Wouldn't everyone benefit from the clubs increased budget? Nobody is forcing you to do anything and you not participating in the meetings doesn't hurt anyone or cost the club anything. You still can contribute to the club online the same way you have been. Except you can't post in the classifieds. It seems to me that the people who have a problem with this are the ones that want the deals we enjoy here but don't want to put in the effort to be part of the "off line" club.

 

[thou]

Can someone just give me an example of how closing the open classifieds would benefit club members and the club? Please...?

 

[mnmuskyman2011]

Can someone just give me an example of how closing the open classifieds would benefit club members and the club? Please...?

In my opinion it will get more people involved in the meetings and other events because they will want to have access to the classifieds.

 

[hypertech]

Clubs don't run just on good intentions. People need to chip in with time or money to keep the place going. I don't mind that much if the freeloaders feathers are ruffled a little that they have to decide if TCMAS classifieds are worth about the cost of a cup of coffee each month.

 

[ironman]

Period? LOL, you have spoken and we shall all listen. No offense, but that is your opinion, nothing more. At the largest business meeting this club has had since I've been going, the overwhelming majority voted to limit the classifieds to members only. I wasn't on the BOD at the time, and I think I voted against it (but don't really recall anymore), but a large number of people had a different opinion than yours. For whatever reason, the previous BOD decided not to stay with what the membership voted for, a closed classifieds, and opened it back up to the split thing we have now.


My opinion? Allow me to quote the TCMAS mission statement.
"The Twin Cities Marine Aquarium Society promotes fellowship and support among saltwater aquarists of all experience levels. We believe in conservation of coral reefs and encourage responsible husbandry, breeding and propagation among members. Through the exchange of knowledge and experiences we help each other become better, more responsible and successful enthusiasts. We are a non-profit organization committed to promoting conservation and awareness in the saltwater hobby."
As you can see, my "opinion" happens to be based on our very own mission statement, which by closing the classifieds, we are deviating from. I would even go so far as to suggest that this whole forum business is what is causing the issue in the first place, if you are an active member of the forum, you should automatically be a basic member, but that's an issue for another day.

If you want it changed back go to the next business meeting and propose that.

I would love too, but being a single family household with three young children, I do not have the income or the time to attend, it would be nice if there was a way to weigh in and discuss issues that will come up in the business meetings on the forum (in the members only section for obvious reasons). That way people who cannot make it to the meetings can at least voice their opinions and have a chance at stopping this lunacy that seems to be plaguing our club. I would love to video or telephone conference in as well, but I understand the logistics of that would be a nightmare and possibly cost prohibitive.

No offense, but you are wrong here. TCMAS was a club for a decade or two before there was ever a forum, and the forum is a perk that was started a few years back. There was buying and selling going on quite some time before this forum, and it was plenty robust back then too. It was just more face to face and personal, and your audience was limited to TCMAS members. Many members wanted it to go back that way. Others would like it open. Fact is, those who showed up and voted voted to close it.

I would be willing to bet that the amount of buying and selling per capita, as well as memberships would be dwarfed by today's statistics. Without the forum, the membership would be much smaller, I would never have found TCMAS were it not for the forum, and I know I'm not alone here. And to say that the forum selling isn't personal is just silly, you still have to go meet with the person face to face in most cases. Once again, I would argue that an active forum member is a TCMAS member, the forum and the club really should not be segregated because it causes confusion and dissent among would be members. I know back when this was an issue last time, I was planning to go to a few meetings (and I did obviously) but, because this issue goes against the club's own mission statement, I was not planning on signing the sign in sheets, or become a member. I don't support hypocracy and I made that very public and clear last time this topic came up. I am slated to host a meeting in early April, and I have done a few things (one which I really did not enjoy) to support TCMAS and what it stands for, so I'm not saying this lightly. I could care less if we even had a Classified section, I could live without it (although I think it would be a very bad idea for the club), but to segregate it to members only only harms the clubs position, the club members, and those looking to get into reefing.

While I didn't agree with everything the BOD has done, I can assure you they thought fairly hard about everything.

That may be, I misspoke when I said "I for one am disgusted that the bod has decided to go back the the antiquated 'members only' classified." I should have said "members" instead of "the bod"

patent

In the end there is no doubt in my mind that everybody at the meeting was acting with the best interest of the club in mind, but I think a a few of these decisions were not well thought out because they defy logic. It's quite clear that people are defensive and taking things as insulting, that's simply not the case, It is possible to disagree without hating, or thinking less of the person you disagree with, but the thought process of "he who disagrees with me hates me" is an American problem, not just a TCMAS problem.

 

[thou]

In my opinion it will get more people involved in the meetings and other events because they will want to have access to the classifieds.

Let me rephrase, so I pay the $30 membership and now I am a member. Same question, what do members/tcmas benefit from closing the open classifieds?

 

[patent]

Period? LOL, you have spoken and we shall all listen. No offense, but that is your opinion, nothing more. At the largest business meeting this club has had since I've been going, the overwhelming majority voted to limit the classifieds to members only. I wasn't on the BOD at the time, and I think I voted against it (but don't really recall anymore), but a large number of people had a different opinion than yours. For whatever reason, the previous BOD decided not to stay with what the membership voted for, a closed classifieds, and opened it back up to the split thing we have now.

My opinion? Allow me to quote the TCMAS mission statement.
"The Twin Cities Marine Aquarium Society promotes fellowship and support among saltwater aquarists of all experience levels. We believe in conservation of coral reefs and encourage responsible husbandry, breeding and propagation among members. Through the exchange of knowledge and experiences we help each other become better, more responsible and successful enthusiasts. We are a non-profit organization committed to promoting conservation and awareness in the saltwater hobby."

Not one thing in there about a classifieds. "Exchange of knowledge" happens primarily at meetings, speaker events, and on the forums, not in the classifieds. Can some knowledge pass in the classifieds? Yes, but its primary purpose is not knowledge, its to sell stuff. Same is true for every other part of that mission statement. We encourage breeding on the forums and at meetings (e.g., our last speaker event), propagation on the forums and meetings, responsible practices on the forums, etc.

As you can see, my "opinion" happens to be based on our very own mission statement, which by closing the classifieds, we are deviating from.

I completely 100% disagree, and I helped write that mission statement. It has nothing in there about classifieds. Nothing was meant by the authors, or by those who enacted it, and started the club. You are quite simply reading your opinion into it, nothing more.

I would love too, but being a single family household with three young children, I do not have the income or the time to attend, it would be nice if there was a way to weigh in and discuss issues that will come up in the business meetings on the forum (in the members only section for obvious reasons).

We do discuss business on the forum, but plain and simple, this club has always been a face to face club. Others have tried to start local web only forums, and they fail. The people who contribute, year after year, have pushed to keep a face to face club. I doubt it will change just yet.

Without the forum, the membership would be much smaller, I would never have found TCMAS were it not for the forum, and I know I'm not alone here.

Would we be smaller w/o the forum? Yes. Would we be smaller w/o the open classifieds? Not so sure about that, but we will find out.

 

[patent]

BTW the main reason I'm upset about this is because it feels like a small group (35-40 people) got together and decided for the rest of us (currently the site reads 2629 members) I didn't even know about the meeting cause most of that information is given out in the members only section. And I would like to attend more meetings, but I want to do so for the sake of being there not to obtain a membership. Now I'm not sure if its even worth it.

FWIW, that "small group" is essentially how this forum came to be in the first place. Some different names and faces over the years, but its that "small group" that started TCMAS decades ago, started putting up forums and meetings, and made all this possible. So if that "small group" of active folks doing things upsets you, you should stop and remember this forum wouldn't be here at all w/o the people who attended that meeting and those who went before them.

 

[ironman]

Not one thing in there about a classifieds. "Exchange of knowledge" happens primarily at meetings, speaker events, and on the forums, not in the classifieds. Can some knowledge pass in the classifieds? Yes, but its primary purpose is not knowledge, its to sell stuff. Same is true for every other part of that mission statement. We encourage breeding on the forums and at meetings (e.g., our last speaker event), propagation on the forums and meetings, responsible practices on the forums, etc.

Are you reading what you are typing? If you think exchanges of knowledge don't occure because of the classifieds, you are sadly mistaken. My point still stands.

I completely 100% disagree, and I helped write that mission statement. It has nothing in there about classifieds. Nothing was meant by the authors, or by those who enacted it, and started the club. You are quite simply reading your opinion into it, nothing more.

No I'm not, I am stating a fact, by keeping the classifieds as member only, you are eliminating a possible source of knowlege, which is a deviation from the Mission statement.

We do discuss business on the forum, but plain and simple, this club has always been a face to face club. Others have tried to start local web only forums, and they fail. The people who contribute, year after year, have pushed to keep a face to face club. I doubt it will change just yet.

That's funny because the forum seems to be flourishing, we have many forum members who are not TCMAS members, and may never be. Seems to me that you are just plain wrong here. At any rate, where were these issues discussed? I saw no thread about issues that would be brought up at the meeting, in fact, this thread is the first I have heard of any of this.

Would we be smaller w/o the forum? Yes. Would we be smaller w/o the open classifieds? Not so sure about that, but we will find out.

That doesn't even apply to this conversation, did I even once say we would be smaller without the classifieds? No, I said we would be smaller without the forum, we need to be consistent and hold to our values, which means either we should have open classifieds, or we should not have classifieds at all.