OP
OP
Will you tell me more about adding iron? How much? Where do you get it? Do you test levels for it?
Steve's L2 Algae Scrubber (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter data_loss
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Fergon tablets dissolved in 50ml of ro water. Dispense the liquid but not the sediment on the bottom of your container. I forget what the recommended dosages are but it doesn't take much. Search Chemistry forum at reef central on Fergon. Don't get generic iron tablets they have other ingredients that are not suitable. I can give you some if you want to try them out. One bottle will last many years as I think it has 100 tablets. Not real easy to find locally CVS and Walgreen just carry their generic brand which isn't pure enough, I just ordered from Amazon and grouped it with other items to get free shipping.
You can buy a commercial iron supplement from Seachem but according to Randy at ReefCentral Chemistry says this is just as good and way cheaper.
No need to test, the indicator is when your algae is turning more lighter or algae is more yellowish than green in color.
You can buy a commercial iron supplement from Seachem but according to Randy at ReefCentral Chemistry says this is just as good and way cheaper.
No need to test, the indicator is when your algae is turning more lighter or algae is more yellowish than green in color.
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00kitty
Senior Member
Ive read through this form and found it very interesting. I have some ideas that kinda have to do with your scrubber but in a more natural way. I tried to make my own scrubber and it was nowhere near as nice as your and never really worked but one thing i learned from it was slower water was better. I found that less flow gave the algea more time to be in the light where i wanted it to grow and the more time its there the more alge will grow. I have a bc 29 and am using the center chamber for my refuge. What i ended up doing that worked for me was hanging algea from the top and having a 25w florecent light on 24hrs a day. I remove 3/4 of the cheato every two weeks and it fills the center chamber. The water comming from the tank into the display creates bubles around the algea much like your scrubber and having that light on all the time draws all the algea growth to that center chamber and in turn makes the cheato grow like crazy. I do have to clean the cheato every other day, but i just shake all the bad algea build up off and it gets sucked into my filter. its the same concept as your scrubber with way more light and a natural screen. the reason im saying this is you were saying you didnt really notice growth on your cheato. Maybe let the leave the scrubber alone and let it do its thing for a bit and concentrate on getting that cheato to grow because that uses the same stuff to grow as algea and if yours isnt growing then its not doing any good. Allso if i see any kind of algea i will go and buy a bunch of snails and crabs. maybe add a bunch more of those. I have around 20 crabs and ten snails in my bc 29. Just a thought
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Yes, macro algae can grow in a much different environment with a wide variety of conditions.
Flow is a very important factor with the water fall, too little will definitely have a negative impact. It may still grow algae but it will be very rubbery and usually light in color. I'm not aware of too strong being negative just so long as your screen has been roughed up the way it is supposed to be.
Flow is a very important factor with the water fall, too little will definitely have a negative impact. It may still grow algae but it will be very rubbery and usually light in color. I'm not aware of too strong being negative just so long as your screen has been roughed up the way it is supposed to be.
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OP
OP
I just noticed I forgot week 18's update. Nothing out of the ordinary. These were from 1/27/13
Nitrates were @ 6
Phosphates were @ .02
Nitrates were @ 6
Phosphates were @ .02
OP
OP
Week 19
I did a thorough cleaning today. Hadn't really ever taken the whole unit out to clean it since I started this.
Best harvest yet :beerchug:
Decided I am going to start weighing the harvests. I just bunched up the whole lot and squeeze the water out. It's going to be tough getting an accurate process of weighing this stuff.
Harvest: 66g
Nitrates: 6
Phosphates: .05
Display tank has been very neglected. I haven't even blown the cyano off the rocks in a long while now. Even with the neglect it hasn't seemed to get worse though.
Will test water when I get back. I have been commissioned to taxi the teenager somewhere...
I did a thorough cleaning today. Hadn't really ever taken the whole unit out to clean it since I started this.
Best harvest yet :beerchug:
Decided I am going to start weighing the harvests. I just bunched up the whole lot and squeeze the water out. It's going to be tough getting an accurate process of weighing this stuff.
Harvest: 66g
Nitrates: 6
Phosphates: .05
Display tank has been very neglected. I haven't even blown the cyano off the rocks in a long while now. Even with the neglect it hasn't seemed to get worse though.
Will test water when I get back. I have been commissioned to taxi the teenager somewhere...
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OP
OP
Week 20
Nitrates @ 6
Phosphates @ .05
Took the light diffuser out of one side today. This will be the side the algae grows to 14 days on. Going keep an eye on it to make sure it isn't burning.
I haven't done a water change in a month and my parameters have remained stable. The goal was never to stop water changes and I'm doing one tonight but it's nice to see anyway.
Cleaned the display tank up today. It had been neglected for quite a while. We'll see how fast the cyano comes back...
Nitrates @ 6
Phosphates @ .05
Took the light diffuser out of one side today. This will be the side the algae grows to 14 days on. Going keep an eye on it to make sure it isn't burning.
I haven't done a water change in a month and my parameters have remained stable. The goal was never to stop water changes and I'm doing one tonight but it's nice to see anyway.
Cleaned the display tank up today. It had been neglected for quite a while. We'll see how fast the cyano comes back...
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OP
OP
Week 21
This is 14 days growth. The best growth I've seen yet. Glad I took the light diffuser off I think it is helping.
The side with 7 days growth. I haven't taken the diffuser off this side yet. Trying to make one small change at a time and observe for a while first.
Nitrates @ 8
Phosphates not tested. Need to pick up more reagent packets.
Display tank looking better. Not yet algae free.
Just for fun.
This is 14 days growth. The best growth I've seen yet. Glad I took the light diffuser off I think it is helping.
The side with 7 days growth. I haven't taken the diffuser off this side yet. Trying to make one small change at a time and observe for a while first.
Nitrates @ 8
Phosphates not tested. Need to pick up more reagent packets.
Display tank looking better. Not yet algae free.
Just for fun.
NickMan
Senior Member
Great write up, I really like the weekly progression shots! I have been debating the addition of an ATS to my system for some time now in the hopes of reducing GFO usage as well as water changes. Unfortunately, your results dont seem to prove an ATS is a magic cure for algae problems. I know that each system is different and each seems to be more or less prone to algae outbreaks but over the years I have identified some major factors that seem to play a role in overall success in battling algae. One of them is your water source. Im not sure if it has been addressed or not in this thread as I kind of skimmed over it last night, but I noticed you live in a largely agricultural area. Are you on well water? Do you use RO/DI water for top offs and water changes?
When I did aquarium maintenance in Maryland I noticed that clients who lived in rural/agricultural areas tended to have a much higher incidence of algae problems, especially cyano. I even noticed higher growth rates of aptasia! This was in part due to a higher-than-your-average-reefs input of food but I also feel that top-off and water change water was a major input of phosphates and nitrates. I was unable to get consistent readings of either from the tap water but did see readable amounts of both from time to time. Factor in a high evaporation rate you have a significant piece of the puzzle.
Just a thought, sorry if this has already been addressed.
-Nick
When I did aquarium maintenance in Maryland I noticed that clients who lived in rural/agricultural areas tended to have a much higher incidence of algae problems, especially cyano. I even noticed higher growth rates of aptasia! This was in part due to a higher-than-your-average-reefs input of food but I also feel that top-off and water change water was a major input of phosphates and nitrates. I was unable to get consistent readings of either from the tap water but did see readable amounts of both from time to time. Factor in a high evaporation rate you have a significant piece of the puzzle.
Just a thought, sorry if this has already been addressed.
-Nick
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^ did any of those clients also use Kalk in their top off?
NickMan
Senior Member
neither one did. The calcium demand wasnt there and I couldnt rely on the owners to maintain a container with Kalk. I ran them both as soft coral tanks (and Xenia farms). I cant even say with certainty that they even used the RO/DI for all of there top-off water either. I had a hard time even getting them to feed less, probably because both had kids who loved to watch the fish eat. It was a losing battle. I know there were a lot of variables at work but the well water was a huge issue.
The joys of working with/for people who call all of their fish by their Disney names. :doh:
The joys of working with/for people who call all of their fish by their Disney names. :doh:
OP
OP
I am on city water. My TDS reads just under 400 coming into my RO/DI system and I make sure it stays under 3 on the way out. Usually it is running at 0 or 1.
I think the cyano issues in the display (which are slowly getting better) are due to a couple of things.
First, I run a 16 hour light cycle on the display. Sunrise starts at 6am and sunset finishes at 10pm. I just don't want to give this up.
Second, I overfeed quite a bit for my ATS size. The L2 is supposed to scrub 2 cubes of food a day, I feed 4 - 6. At some point I'm going to buy or build a larger scrubber for this system. The fact that the L2 can even keep up with my nutrient import is pretty amazing to me. When I have backed off feeding so much I have noticed that the cyano thins out quite a bit. I guess I look at it like this, feeding 4 - 6 cubes a day my nitrate and phosphate levels hold steady. If I fed less I'm sure they would eventually drop to the point where the ATS could out-compete the cyano in the display.
From my experience I have concluded that an algae free ATS only system is absolutely doable with a proper sized scrubber. I don't think my system is an example of that because I intentionally run with it not properly sized for my feeding habits right now.
I think the cyano issues in the display (which are slowly getting better) are due to a couple of things.
First, I run a 16 hour light cycle on the display. Sunrise starts at 6am and sunset finishes at 10pm. I just don't want to give this up.
Second, I overfeed quite a bit for my ATS size. The L2 is supposed to scrub 2 cubes of food a day, I feed 4 - 6. At some point I'm going to buy or build a larger scrubber for this system. The fact that the L2 can even keep up with my nutrient import is pretty amazing to me. When I have backed off feeding so much I have noticed that the cyano thins out quite a bit. I guess I look at it like this, feeding 4 - 6 cubes a day my nitrate and phosphate levels hold steady. If I fed less I'm sure they would eventually drop to the point where the ATS could out-compete the cyano in the display.
From my experience I have concluded that an algae free ATS only system is absolutely doable with a proper sized scrubber. I don't think my system is an example of that because I intentionally run with it not properly sized for my feeding habits right now.
NickMan
Senior Member
Have you tried turning the lights down or off at some point during the day for a 2 stage light cycle? I think that method is popular on the planted tank forums (or it was when i was on there last). Maybe giving the corals and the algae a rest in the middle of the day when you arent there to view the tank might help.
OP
OP
I haven't tried anything like that. The cyano in my display has been very easy to blow off with a turkey baster whenever I want and hasn't really been a big issue for me. It certainly hasn't detracted from me enjoying the tank. If it ever got worse I would certainly consider doing something like this though.
Right now I'm making smaller tweaks to try to enhance the scrubber to see how much it can handle. When growth and nutrient export seems to top off I'll start making changes to feeding and lighting cycles in the display to try to find an algae free balance :beerchug:
I have been watching this thread from the beginning and have been amazed at the increased growth week after week. I keep thinking that you will top out at some point but with last weeks results I would say that you are still building. I would think that the larger hair algae like tufts are getting well seeded and things just keep getting better. What a great documentation for us to watch.
I just about pulled the trigger on an L4 several weeks ago and another memeber and I even got a quote on shipping in a couple of units. My biggest issue is room for the unit as well as added maintainence with cleaning it and its pump/plumbing.
My 150g display looks great with virtually no nuisance algae but I need GFO and large water changes to keep up with it. I do have 25 plus fish and feed somewhere between 3 and 5 cubes a day so it is no surprise that a 30g water change a week along with GFO and a large skimmer is required to keep Phosphates and Nitrates under control.
Decided to give Vodka dosing a go before investing in an L4 and trying to wedge it in my stand above the sump. I think Vodka is actually working. I am ramping up on the doses still but phospates have been testing at .05 and Nitrates at 5-10ppm. I took the GFO offline but am still doing the 30g water changes weekly.
So I am remaining optimistic that Vodka may be the answer for me but very intrigued with the results that you are having. Thank you for documenting your results for us considering an ATS.
I just about pulled the trigger on an L4 several weeks ago and another memeber and I even got a quote on shipping in a couple of units. My biggest issue is room for the unit as well as added maintainence with cleaning it and its pump/plumbing.
My 150g display looks great with virtually no nuisance algae but I need GFO and large water changes to keep up with it. I do have 25 plus fish and feed somewhere between 3 and 5 cubes a day so it is no surprise that a 30g water change a week along with GFO and a large skimmer is required to keep Phosphates and Nitrates under control.
Decided to give Vodka dosing a go before investing in an L4 and trying to wedge it in my stand above the sump. I think Vodka is actually working. I am ramping up on the doses still but phospates have been testing at .05 and Nitrates at 5-10ppm. I took the GFO offline but am still doing the 30g water changes weekly.
So I am remaining optimistic that Vodka may be the answer for me but very intrigued with the results that you are having. Thank you for documenting your results for us considering an ATS.
Both Steve and I are now just doing maintenance once a week. I was doing twice a week ( one side at a time 3-4 days apart) and found out that just 1 side every week yeilds ( so each side grows 14days between cleaning ) I scrap just as much algae from one side as I did both sides per week. So maintenance wise it's only about 10 minutes per week to maintain. I know when I ran skimmers cleaning my skimmer cup multiple times a week was actually more time consuming.
Vodka is also a daily chore not that it takes much time but you have to be consistant every day.
So personally, I don't get the claims some people have that it is more maintenance.
Also, every tank is a little different some have more anerobic zones that others and may become nitrate limited and thus phosphates may still be elevated. So you may have unrealistic expectations to eliminate phosphates and reduce water changes.
I ended up doing the same water change routine as I use to with a bubble king skimmer running. Phosphates aren't perfect and range between .06ppm - .12ppm but growth is fine and no algae issues so I'm not concerned about it and no plans for GFO ( I've never been a fan ).
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OP
OP
Glad to see this thread has been useful :beerchug:
Cleaning the ATS is the quickest easiest part of my maintenance routine. It takes me longer to do a Nitrate test with the Red Sea Pro test kit than it does to clean the screen.
I still have a few more tweaks to try to get more growth but I too keep thinking it will top out soon.
Cleaning the ATS is the quickest easiest part of my maintenance routine. It takes me longer to do a Nitrate test with the Red Sea Pro test kit than it does to clean the screen.
I still have a few more tweaks to try to get more growth but I too keep thinking it will top out soon.
Agree about the maintenance part. the ATS cleaning is far more easier and less stinkier than cleaning a skimmer; I still run both largely because of travel sometimes not letting me clean the ATS, otherwise I find it easier than dosing vodka/vinegar even with automation. downside of vodka dosing I have noticed is if the dose is off mark (dosed just a little more or missed a few) for whatever reason the tank goes south rather quickly esp the SPS.
OP
OP
Week 22
Another great week. Seems even better than last week yet again :beerchug:
14 days growth
7 days growth
Nitrate @ 8
Phosphates @ .01
No real change with the cyano in the display. I blow it off every once in a while, it slowly grows back. It does seem to grow back more slowly as of late.
Another great week. Seems even better than last week yet again :beerchug:
14 days growth
7 days growth
Nitrate @ 8
Phosphates @ .01
No real change with the cyano in the display. I blow it off every once in a while, it slowly grows back. It does seem to grow back more slowly as of late.
OP
OP
Week 29
Sorry for the lack of updates. Maintenance schedule was erratic for a while there. Need to get back to cleaning every Sunday.
Did a deep clean of the scrubber today.
Great growth on the screen. Quite a bit built up in the scrubber as well.
Tried to clean and scrub the top of the screen a bit better as algae has been growing up into the slot and slowing the water flow.
Before this weekend it had been at least a couple of months since I had done a water change. Both Nitrates and Phosphates had held steady at the same levels through the lack of maintenance.
I took the light diffuser off the back side of the scrubber today. Hope to see even more growth with the extra light this week.
I am also going to do a 3 day lights out this week ending on Sunday with a water change to try to kick the cyano that has been so stubborn in the display.
Sorry for the lack of updates. Maintenance schedule was erratic for a while there. Need to get back to cleaning every Sunday.
Did a deep clean of the scrubber today.
Great growth on the screen. Quite a bit built up in the scrubber as well.
Tried to clean and scrub the top of the screen a bit better as algae has been growing up into the slot and slowing the water flow.
Before this weekend it had been at least a couple of months since I had done a water change. Both Nitrates and Phosphates had held steady at the same levels through the lack of maintenance.
I took the light diffuser off the back side of the scrubber today. Hope to see even more growth with the extra light this week.
I am also going to do a 3 day lights out this week ending on Sunday with a water change to try to kick the cyano that has been so stubborn in the display.
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