Marty's 450g (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter marty9876
- Start date
Love em
Overdue update to report there is mot much of an update. "In a holding pattern" as James would put it best describes my current state. Killed ~ $500 bucks worth of SPS which has left me feeling pretty butt hurt on the whole "bunch of big fish and bunch of SPS" plan. Not sure what all is going on/how I screwed up this do badly. (note: don't dip SPS into a hydrogen peroxide mix of 1:4 parts, not so good)
Yucky algae while never a really bad issue is in decline. Part of me thinks the tank just needed ~ 6 months to mature again. Lights are fine. Skimmer(s) should prolly me majorly upgraded, unsure if I really feel like spending the money on it now. Lots of other competing interests from the fish hobby which isn't helping out.
Stand is still not skinned... yikes, not sure why I'm dragging my feet so badly on that. Got a quote, ~$1700 which spooked me a little.
Lids kinda suck, glass is so heavy. 1/2 screen 1/2 lids not a bad mix. Tank sucks to clean, too deep too tall. Overflow box is a real suck times 10 factor to clean. Working up something to block the light out from going in there as algae grows like mad there.
Jeabo's WP 60's are fine. Really slow down when dirty. Might cut ever other slot out on them to increase flow, when clean I need to turn them down a ways.
Still debating on putting a killer (pun intended) anemone in there. I really want something unique looking which has been hard to find. Plus the whole eat all your fish and then die and kill everything else deal has been on edge.
ATS/Fuge doing it's thing. Long term I think monster skimmer & LaCL would be the best approach. I think I feed too much for ATS/Fuge's to work enough. AWC has been doing it's thing, should have bought the faster pump (run less) but not a big whoop.
Yucky algae while never a really bad issue is in decline. Part of me thinks the tank just needed ~ 6 months to mature again. Lights are fine. Skimmer(s) should prolly me majorly upgraded, unsure if I really feel like spending the money on it now. Lots of other competing interests from the fish hobby which isn't helping out.
Stand is still not skinned... yikes, not sure why I'm dragging my feet so badly on that. Got a quote, ~$1700 which spooked me a little.
Lids kinda suck, glass is so heavy. 1/2 screen 1/2 lids not a bad mix. Tank sucks to clean, too deep too tall. Overflow box is a real suck times 10 factor to clean. Working up something to block the light out from going in there as algae grows like mad there.
Jeabo's WP 60's are fine. Really slow down when dirty. Might cut ever other slot out on them to increase flow, when clean I need to turn them down a ways.
Still debating on putting a killer (pun intended) anemone in there. I really want something unique looking which has been hard to find. Plus the whole eat all your fish and then die and kill everything else deal has been on edge.
ATS/Fuge doing it's thing. Long term I think monster skimmer & LaCL would be the best approach. I think I feed too much for ATS/Fuge's to work enough. AWC has been doing it's thing, should have bought the faster pump (run less) but not a big whoop.
I have no idea how you clean that overflow. I would be terrified. You must have to lay down on top of your tank. Getting that covered would be a priority. Do you think you could use corrugated plastic in a quick pinch?
If you want to try up sizing your ATS before spending on a skimmer, I have that one I had built still if you would like to try it to see if it would make a dent. I hang onto it because someday I might run it on a fish only system or something. I can let you borrow it for a few months or something.
When you want to try SPS again, just invite me down, I will come with presents. Some large, some small.
How are your fish with leathers? A big Tyree green toadstool may help with nutrients....I can hook you up there too...I have one that won't get lost in your tank.....just holler, man.
If you want to try up sizing your ATS before spending on a skimmer, I have that one I had built still if you would like to try it to see if it would make a dent. I hang onto it because someday I might run it on a fish only system or something. I can let you borrow it for a few months or something.
When you want to try SPS again, just invite me down, I will come with presents. Some large, some small.
How are your fish with leathers? A big Tyree green toadstool may help with nutrients....I can hook you up there too...I have one that won't get lost in your tank.....just holler, man.
The overflow on my 75 is a pain in the ars to clean I can't imagine yours.
The hobby is very frustrating when your battling with forces you can't explain.
The hobby is very frustrating when your battling with forces you can't explain.
sounding down there marty... maybe you need a free cookie or free pizza to cheer you up! 
:beerchug:
:beerchug:HOW REAL MEN CATCH FISH
Meant to post this back in the Jonty fish catching-a-thong. Had my Flame wrasse end up in the overflow, that was fun. Pulled the stacks, wife under the tank - left, right, he's over there... and I blindly try and get him. Actually, once I had her help it worked out fine, trying to do it by myself was a failure (much like sex).
Meant to post this back in the Jonty fish catching-a-thong. Had my Flame wrasse end up in the overflow, that was fun. Pulled the stacks, wife under the tank - left, right, he's over there... and I blindly try and get him. Actually, once I had her help it worked out fine, trying to do it by myself was a failure (much like sex).
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Update time:
- Taking a break from corals for now. Gave away/sold what little pieces I had not managed to kill off. I think the tank was just too new for everything I was expecting of it. Things have way settled down (slight algae issues almost non-existent now). Dawned on me despite being in a "system" the tank is basically ~ 4 months old right now. Pretty new still.
- Trying to save electricity.
In QT- Scribble angel, pair of Lineatus wrasse & golden assessor. Hope to get a 3-4" Goldflake angel and them move those dorks plus the Semivartus butterfly and Sohal tang back up stairs (Semi eat everything but mushrooms).
So I guess the plan is FOWLR for the summer. I've got a lot of other interesting picking up steam and the price of this stuff really makes me scratch my head some days. Cool stuff thou, my fish are all very healthy and really in prime health.
- Taking a break from corals for now. Gave away/sold what little pieces I had not managed to kill off. I think the tank was just too new for everything I was expecting of it. Things have way settled down (slight algae issues almost non-existent now). Dawned on me despite being in a "system" the tank is basically ~ 4 months old right now. Pretty new still.
- Trying to save electricity.
- Cut the ATI hybrids down, only running one bank of T5's for now.
- Took the ATS offline. If I don't add iron it doesn't really do much. I ran out of iron, don't feel like ordering more.
- Will cut back 50% of fuge lighting. Stupid fish don't eat caulerpa algae.
- Might cut back on some of the WP-60's in the tank. Also might cut out some of the covers guard slots on these to increase flow when they get a little algae on this (flow goes way, way down on these then a little algae is on them)
In QT- Scribble angel, pair of Lineatus wrasse & golden assessor. Hope to get a 3-4" Goldflake angel and them move those dorks plus the Semivartus butterfly and Sohal tang back up stairs (Semi eat everything but mushrooms).
So I guess the plan is FOWLR for the summer. I've got a lot of other interesting picking up steam and the price of this stuff really makes me scratch my head some days. Cool stuff thou, my fish are all very healthy and really in prime health.
What iron supplement were you using with your scrubber?
Sprungs stuff, Grigor has posted about some pills you dissolve to make a iron solution, way cheaper. I think you can get it off amazon, I just never ran it down
Fergon iron pills, dissolve a tablet in 50mil of ro/di. There will be a little sediment in the bottom that is best not to dispense. Don't get the CVS or walgreens house brands while won't kill anything they do have extra ingredients that is best not to add to your tank long term.
Been a month since I took the ATS offline. Experience to date:
- Skimmers skim about 30% more volume (same relative wetness level, 30% more volume coming out)
- Had a week (about 2 weeks into it) where the skimmers were pulling black stuff and the socks were collecting black stuff. Freaked me out. Unsure what caused that, didn't find anything dead
- Rip in the time space continuum opened up in the fish room
- PO4 bounced up from .10 on average to .30. No idea if thus was connected, I don't test much anymore
- NO3 about the same 2-4 range
- Algae in the show tank is less than ever. I contribute that to tank maturing (only 5 months old) more than anything
- Macro algae fuge about the same as it's been
- $30/month reduction in electric bill (that buys a lot of LaCL3)
Will I go back to ATS? Honestly, Grigor's comment about a fuge being a mess (it is, full of bristle worms and aptashia) whereas a ATS is clean really has been hitting home. I always planned on feeding the macro algae to the fish, they don't eat any of it every time I've tried. Maybe the next step is no fuge and run the ATS.
- Skimmers skim about 30% more volume (same relative wetness level, 30% more volume coming out)
- Had a week (about 2 weeks into it) where the skimmers were pulling black stuff and the socks were collecting black stuff. Freaked me out. Unsure what caused that, didn't find anything dead
- Rip in the time space continuum opened up in the fish room
- PO4 bounced up from .10 on average to .30. No idea if thus was connected, I don't test much anymore
- NO3 about the same 2-4 range
- Algae in the show tank is less than ever. I contribute that to tank maturing (only 5 months old) more than anything
- Macro algae fuge about the same as it's been
- $30/month reduction in electric bill (that buys a lot of LaCL3)
Will I go back to ATS? Honestly, Grigor's comment about a fuge being a mess (it is, full of bristle worms and aptashia) whereas a ATS is clean really has been hitting home. I always planned on feeding the macro algae to the fish, they don't eat any of it every time I've tried. Maybe the next step is no fuge and run the ATS.
I think next time ( If you try again ), going with T5s with good parabolic reflectors vs. the VHO will help get more light intensity. I understand using what you already had available but for sure was a limiting factor.
Like I have elluded to several times, ATS alone is never going to be the answer and regular consistant scheduled pulling the screen. I'm back to one side on Wed and one side on Sat/Sun no matter what and really helps. If I get lazy/sloppy and veer away from the schedule things do start to go south pretty quickly.
Combined with other methods of exporting, water changes, siphoning substrate and getting as much organics out as possible, it certainly can play a positive role.
Mine is directly fed from herbie on the show tank so only electricity used is the 100w of electricity for the bulbs 18 hours a day maybe about $4 a month to run. With the larger size tank and more fish your probably need to go with 4X54w setup as long as your return pump flow is around 1600gph that should be good enough to skip a feed pump.
So yes, I don't really expect ( really for anyone ) that first try at ATS to work as well as it could on the very first try. It takes some tweaking and improving several iterations to get the right combination going.
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I keep trying to think of what the "problem" is I'm trying to solve. Next line of thinking is there is "one" answer to this given problem and there never is.
I'd like an ATS to
1. keep PO4 below levels that interfere with coral growth (which scientifically this is debatable where that level is)
2. keep the yucky algae out of the DT
3. keep NO3 below bad levels (sub 10 at the highest I suspect)
1- ATS is never going to do at least from my experience to date for my feeding habits. Couple that with the cheapness of LaCL3 puts things in a pickle. Combine not knowing what "level" PO4 really should be kepts under makes things more vauge.
2- I think a ATS can really help out there. Won't keep is perfect but will go a long ways.
3- Crap shoot. There are many other ways to control NO3 and for my system it's never been an issue (unless keeping it less than 1 is the goal).
So I guess, based on my experience on my system with my hodge podge setup, I was getting 1 of 3 goals met. Thinking ATS alone will meet any or all of these goals is most likely not realistic.
Makes you wonder why I'm thinking about setting one up again with 2x the screen area and 4x the lighting...
I'd like an ATS to
1. keep PO4 below levels that interfere with coral growth (which scientifically this is debatable where that level is)
2. keep the yucky algae out of the DT
3. keep NO3 below bad levels (sub 10 at the highest I suspect)
1- ATS is never going to do at least from my experience to date for my feeding habits. Couple that with the cheapness of LaCL3 puts things in a pickle. Combine not knowing what "level" PO4 really should be kepts under makes things more vauge.
2- I think a ATS can really help out there. Won't keep is perfect but will go a long ways.
3- Crap shoot. There are many other ways to control NO3 and for my system it's never been an issue (unless keeping it less than 1 is the goal).
So I guess, based on my experience on my system with my hodge podge setup, I was getting 1 of 3 goals met. Thinking ATS alone will meet any or all of these goals is most likely not realistic.
Makes you wonder why I'm thinking about setting one up again with 2x the screen area and 4x the lighting...
Like you say everyones tank is different and people have different goals ( ie: fish dominate, coral dominate etc. ). Really figuring out what the realistic of what the ATS can do based on it's size, flow, light and either tweak the ATS for more capacity or conceed on larger water changes, less food, and other supplmental methods gfo etc. Tracking nitrate/phosphate very closely almost a whole year is what did it for me. I had a good idea what it can and can't do with the fish load, amount of feeding etc. Made some decisions that you may not be willing to conceed on ( ie: reducing fish load when it got to where it couldn't keep up ) etc. At times, added GFO to help compensate, a few extra water changes here and there.
So it is very much a trial and get to where your going with an ATS. Never going to get it right the first time and tank is always maturing at the same time and tweaks will likely still need to be made.
If may nor may not be for you.
Another thing I do on purpose is I don't want anything in the tank that can also reduce nitrates ( outside of Liverock in the show ). I want as much nitrate available as possible so that the ATS can remove as much phosphate as possible. This is assuming you become nitrate limited. For me, I rarely would get any reading higher than .1ppm for nitrate. It never accumulated. Phosphate on the other hand could easily got anywhere between .02 and .12 and would have to make adjustments to either my maintenance, feeding to get back in line. So tracking it at least for quite some time until become predictable was important to my success and understanding the limits.
From my experience. I don't strive for ultra low as it would take more effort and cost that it's worth for my tank. Just based on tracking I found around .06ppm phosphate levels to be the sweet spot. Low enough, no algae issues etc. Corals still grow well. The cost of and effort to get any lower really didn't provide enough benefit. That was just from trial and error too but was valuable information to make my decision when tracking phosphate closely for nearly a year.
So it is very much a trial and get to where your going with an ATS. Never going to get it right the first time and tank is always maturing at the same time and tweaks will likely still need to be made.
If may nor may not be for you.
Another thing I do on purpose is I don't want anything in the tank that can also reduce nitrates ( outside of Liverock in the show ). I want as much nitrate available as possible so that the ATS can remove as much phosphate as possible. This is assuming you become nitrate limited. For me, I rarely would get any reading higher than .1ppm for nitrate. It never accumulated. Phosphate on the other hand could easily got anywhere between .02 and .12 and would have to make adjustments to either my maintenance, feeding to get back in line. So tracking it at least for quite some time until become predictable was important to my success and understanding the limits.
From my experience. I don't strive for ultra low as it would take more effort and cost that it's worth for my tank. Just based on tracking I found around .06ppm phosphate levels to be the sweet spot. Low enough, no algae issues etc. Corals still grow well. The cost of and effort to get any lower really didn't provide enough benefit. That was just from trial and error too but was valuable information to make my decision when tracking phosphate closely for nearly a year.
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- Jul 5, 2009
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I have a couple of liters of the all in one biopellets arriving Monday, I am hoping these will be a one reactor solution to PO4and N0#3.
http://reefbuilders.com/2014/05/12/biopellets/
http://reefbuilders.com/2014/05/12/biopellets/
Interesting. Hobby is always evolving.
180g tank up to 650gph flow through the pellet reactor. That's not some ordinary reactor then for that kind of flow.
Most interesting. Thanks for the heads up Jonty.
The feedback I've read/heard on bio-pellets has mostly been negative. I do like the somewhat "set it and forget it" approach. Higher flow things while take more juice to make go (DC pumps!) but tend to be simpler in the long run I think than trying to dial in a low > 100gph deal.
Think these things would fall under the recirculating reactor is better approach or just let them rip?
The feedback I've read/heard on bio-pellets has mostly been negative. I do like the somewhat "set it and forget it" approach. Higher flow things while take more juice to make go (DC pumps!) but tend to be simpler in the long run I think than trying to dial in a low > 100gph deal.
Think these things would fall under the recirculating reactor is better approach or just let them rip?
