Air exchanger for fish room? (1 Viewer)

[BlindSwordsman]

I currently think it's best to add some sort of air exchanger (or whatever you tech guys call it) to my fish room . Something that can pull the air out of the room and adding fresh air in, that's what I have in mind. I thought we had some discussion about that in the past. I just can't find it where that is, which thread it was on at the moment. Anybody knows? Or anybody has any recommendations? Right now, I have some air pulled out of that room but with the door closed, there's no fresh air in, so the air is tight, but I'm thinking it's best to keep that room separated from the rest of the house . I visually think some sort of unit that I can put on the top the ceiling, in the attic, that will run out to the side of the house? ... I need to do some research but I'd like to put something on here as I know we have a lot of experts . Thanks!

 

[BlindSwordsman]

Made a quick search. Maybe this is something I need:

Amazon.com

... Maybe my next question is: Who can install this for me and how much? I don't think I can deal with the electrical wiring, the ceiling cutting and installation myself. That's a bit beyond my below average handyman skills .

 

[Nickz]

There are 2 types hrv or erv depending on the reason you are installing. I run hrv because I needed it to pull out humidity and erv won't do that

 

[BlindSwordsman]

They're are 2 types hrv or erv depending on the reason you are installing. I run hrv because I needed it to pull out humidity and erv won't do that

I just caught your reply. So, there's the HRV, and there's the ERV. And the HRV removes humidity!? ... Got it. I'll look into the HRV. Sounds like that's a better choice. Thanks!

 

[Nickz]

You may not need that, when we did the hrv we were already running a while house dehumidifier and it couldn't keep up with the humidity from 2600 gallons of tanks we were running. We were at a pretty extreme amount of water. The erv will recover some of the humidity in the house and recirculate it back in. Hrv will not

 

[zoolan70]

If I recall correctly, you live in an older house, so you probably get plenty of air migration through the walls, around windows, etc. All I would do in your case is get a good dehumidifier for that fish room and set it up to drain right into the floor drain (so you don't need to remember to empty it). Only if you have issues after that would I consider anything else.

 

[BlindSwordsman]

You may not need that, when we did the hrv we were already running a while house dehumidifier and it couldn't keep up with the humidity from 2600 gallons of tanks we were running. We were at a pretty extreme amount of water. The erv will recover some of the humidity in the house and recirculate it back in. Hrv will not

I do have a bit of condensation on the glass door in that room, especially when it's very cold outside and/or when I cook a lot and there's a lot of steam in the house. So, I think the HRV might help better?

... So, .. Mmmmm .... Anyone wants to take on the job, give me a proposal on what I should do, getting an HRV installed, interested in providing me with a quote? Please PM me!

....

If I recall correctly, you live in an older house, so you probably get plenty of air migration through the walls, around windows, etc. All I would do in your case is get a good dehumidifier for that fish room and set it up to drain right into the floor drain (so you don't need to remember to empty it). Only if you have issues after that would I consider anything else.

This house was built in 1980. I wouldn't say there's a lot of air flow in and out of my windows, doors, and walls. All of the windows and doors were replaced 10+ years ago around/after my purchase. Right now, I close the door of that room, and the air is pretty much sealed and pretty suffocating.

 

[Nickz]

You have to do what you think is the right answer. I went dehumidifiers first, then I went whole house dehumidifier, then had to add hrv on top of that. If it's humidity that is the issue I would go dehumidifier.

More context...
House built in 85
2600 gallons of water in house
Everything was OK
New high efficiency furnace
Had to add dehumidifier
Everything fine
New windows, patio door
Had to add air exchanger

Every upgrade I did to basically sealing the house meant I needed to upgrade my humidity control.

 

[reef junkie]

The fish room, is this room you have your tank in currently correct? Not like a room in the basement you make water and such. Same room you had the display in? How much water are you evaporating? And air exchanger in my opinion might be over kill. A dehumidifier like mentioned before would be your cheapest and easiest option. If you can run the drain line to the basement below to a drain it will just run for you without any real maintance. Set it to desired humidity and let it rip tater chip.

Now if you have humidity issues in the house before adding the tanks or if you never open your windows then an air to air could benefit the rest of the house. Xcel use to do free energy test on your home if you were a customer and they would come in and test how tight the house was and give you a list of things that would help make the house more efficient. I like this route first because they do a blower test and it test how much air leaks on your home. You could have an older home. But if the siding is newer it should have a house wrap , if the windows Are newer it should have spray foam. These things seal the house up more Not allowing as much air exchange to happen thus needed the exchanger.

If you go exchanger and dont get angone on here to help you, those hvac numbers I sent you would all be a good opton for getting pricing. I like All mechanical they are my current HVAC sub I use and have been great to work with.

 

[BlindSwordsman]

The fish room, is this room you have your tank in currently correct? Not like a room in the basement you make water and such. Same room you had the display in? How much water are you evaporating? And air exchanger in my opinion might be over kill. A dehumidifier like mentioned before would be your cheapest and easiest option. If you can run the drain line to the basement below to a drain it will just run for you without any real maintance. Set it to desired humidity and let it rip tater chip.

Now if you have humidity issues in the house before adding the tanks or if you never open your windows then an air to air could benefit the rest of the house. Xcel use to do free energy test on your home if you were a customer and they would come in and test how tight the house was and give you a list of things that would help make the house more efficient. I like this route first because they do a blower test and it test how much air leaks on your home. You could have an older home. But if the siding is newer it should have a house wrap , if the windows Are newer it should have spray foam. These things seal the house up more Not allowing as much air exchange to happen thus needed the exchanger.

If you go exchanger and dont get angone on here to help you, those hvac numbers I sent you would all be a good opton for getting pricing. I like All mechanical they are my current HVAC sub I use and have been great to work with.

Yes, it's the 'fish room' on my main floor in the back by the deck (basically, the 3rd bedroom, or the 'den', or whatever you want to consider that ) where my tanks are at.

The siding was replaced by the time I moved in as well . ... And then I replaced the roof, the AC, the furnace, the water heater. ... I literally got everything replaced inside and out, down to electric wall plates because everything was used to death, broken or missing!

Humidity was not the thing I was aiming to correct, but I don't think it hurts to add that into the equation. I was more interested in getting fresh air in and stale air out of the room. And thanks for the reminder, I didn't think of those HVAC companies that I have been looking into for the AC unit at work. I was thinking they only dealt with bigger jobs, but looking at the business cards I've been collecting, they do say 'ventilating' on some. So, that could be another good start. Thanks.

 

[Mathew0]

Sounds to me like you're trying to get the CO2 laden air out and good fresh air in. Presumably to help with PH. I would think a good bathroom ceiling fan/vent would suffice. The air would be forced out of the room with that, and fresh air would be drawn in thru the gaps between the door and frame.

 

[reef junkie]

Another option that might work……
leave the door open to that room. This way the hvac system can do what it was intended. To move old air in an out via the returns and supplies.
An added option to leaving the door open. Run your furnace fan. This moves air whe nnot called for heat or ac. Mine runs 24/7 to keep the air moving around the home all the time. This alone could take care of it alone as well. These items are free other than the electricity cost to run the fan. In the mild temp season an open window does wonders as well. Cold and hot months hvac system if sized right might do it

 

[BlindSwordsman]

Sounds to me like you're trying to get the CO2 laden air out and good fresh air in. Presumably to help with PH. I would think a good bathroom ceiling fan/vent would suffice. The air would be forced out of the room with that, and fresh air would be drawn in thru the gaps between the door and frame.

No, it's not about pH level for the tank. For that, I could connect the fresh air line to my skimmer (which I put on for a while and actually just took it off recently). No, I'm thinking more about my and my dog's well being and the air in that room . ... And actually, I do have a bathroom fan running 24/7 in that room that I did not mention earlier, but I still think it's not enough .

Another option that might work……
leave the door open to that room. This way the hvac system can do what it was intended. To move old air in an out via the returns and supplies.
An added option to leaving the door open. Run your furnace fan. This moves air whe nnot called for heat or ac. Mine runs 24/7 to keep the air moving around the home all the time. This alone could take care of it alone as well. These items are free other than the electricity cost to run the fan. In the mild temp season an open window does wonders as well. Cold and hot months hvac system if sized right might do it

Hahahaha ... Round and round with this, and at the end, I hear you are telling me: 'Ken! Just leave the darn door OPEN!!!!' ... And yeah, I don't have the furnace fan running 24/7 (I still can't decide if it's a good thing to do, considering the life span of the fan and such??!! ) and I don't have the habit of having my windows open. Not in the colder time of the year and sometimes, not much in warmer time either. I have some crazy neighbors who love to burn stuff in their yards. Those pyromaniacs?? It can get pretty crazy with the smoke getting into the house ,.

 

[Chris Goetz]

Great conversation!

A couple comments that I’ve picked up working for an hvac wholesaler.

Before you turn your fan on constant 24x7 try to figure out the electrical consumption of the fan/blower. Many years ago I helped make some tools that calculated these costs and some brands are easily 5-10 the cost to operate due to inefficient fan motors. “ECM motors” cost a fraction of the conventional type to run and are included I most high efficiency furnaces these days. For example, my 2011 97% furnace costs me about $60-70 per year to run 24x7. Other brands/models can easily cost $300-600.

Erv vs Hrv - main difference is what your goal is. Hrv exhausts inside air and recovers the heat(humidity is exhausted). Erv exhausts inside air and recovers the heat and humidity maintaining the “condition” but with fresh air. It’s actually really cool how it works if you research it.
One of the leading ERV manufacturers is located in Madison Wisconsin and they have a ton of literature on their site. Primary reason people go this route is overall indoor air quality improvement and there’s a reason it’s code/required on all new homes in most places.

Another test you can do is to turn your bathroom fans on 24x7 for a day or two and see if your symptoms improve. That will tell you if exhausting the internal air is sufficient or if something more is needed, like an Hrv/Erv.

In my last home I had a simple fan that exhausted 110cfm from the fish room(closet). This kept the room negatively pressurized meaning all humidity was exhausted rather than escaping to rest of the house. This was a cheap option and during the winter I ran it on a timer to allow some humidity to escape and keep the house from getting too dry. I still have that fan - you’re welcome to have it if you’d like it.

In my current home I installed an Erv last year in preparation for a my return to the hobby and a large tank. Hardest part was cutting 6” holes in my siding/walls and running the ductwork. Even then it only took me the better part of a day do definitely a diy project for anyone halfway handy like me. The unit itself just plugs in.

 

[BlindSwordsman]

Great conversation!

A couple comments that I’ve picked up working for an hvac wholesaler.

Before you turn your fan on constant 24x7 try to figure out the electrical consumption of the fan/blower. Many years ago I helped make some tools that calculated these costs and some brands are easily 5-10 the cost to operate due to inefficient fan motors. “ECM motors” cost a fraction of the conventional type to run and are included I most high efficiency furnaces these days. For example, my 2011 97% furnace costs me about $60-70 per year to run 24x7. Other brands/models can easily cost $300-600.

Erv vs Hrv - main difference is what your goal is. Hrv exhausts inside air and recovers the heat(humidity is exhausted). Erv exhausts inside air and recovers the heat and humidity maintaining the “condition” but with fresh air. It’s actually really cool how it works if you research it.
One of the leading ERV manufacturers is located in Madison Wisconsin and they have a ton of literature on their site. Primary reason people go this route is overall indoor air quality improvement and there’s a reason it’s code/required on all new homes in most places.

Another test you can do is to turn your bathroom fans on 24x7 for a day or two and see if your symptoms improve. That will tell you if exhausting the internal air is sufficient or if something more is needed, like an Hrv/Erv.

In my last home I had a simple fan that exhausted 110cfm from the fish room(closet). This kept the room negatively pressurized meaning all humidity was exhausted rather than escaping to rest of the house. This was a cheap option and during the winter I ran it on a timer to allow some humidity to escape and keep the house from getting too dry. I still have that fan - you’re welcome to have it if you’d like it.

In my current home I installed an Erv last year in preparation for a my return to the hobby and a large tank. Hardest part was cutting 6” holes in my siding/walls and running the ductwork. Even then it only took me the better part of a day do definitely a diy project for anyone halfway handy like me. The unit itself just plugs in.

Considering all of the costs that have been going up these years like the property tax, if the maximum cost of running a furnace fan 24/7 is $300-600/year, I think can manage that still. But I'm not much of a hardware guy. So, I'm thinking, would that kill my furnace fan faster and I have to deal with getting that fixed sooner or something down the line?? I'm afraid of broken stuff . ... But maybe leaving it on running 24/7 is something that should be done.

.. And I think you missed out the part where I said I do have a bathroom exhaust fan, running 24/7/365 in my fish room already .

... And, may I ask which 'plug in' ERV unit that you use? Where can I get that? Maybe it's something I should look into and do it myself. It'll be much easier with a plug and play sort of thing, in comparison to figure out what kind of electrical wiring I have up on the attic, etc, etc, among other things.. That could be messy.

 

[zoolan70]

Considering all of the costs that have been going up these years like the property tax, if the maximum cost of running a furnace fan 24/7 is $300-600/year, I think can manage that still. But I'm not much of a hardware guy. So, I'm thinking, would that kill my furnace fan faster and I have to deal with getting that fixed sooner or something down the line?? I'm afraid of broken stuff . ... But maybe leaving it on running 24/7 is something that should be done.

The hardest wear on most motors is the startup, so you probably would be extending its life instead of shortening it by leaving it on 24/7.

I also would venture to guess that if you have a recently built furnace that the power draw for that fan is very low.

 

[Chris Goetz]

Ah sorry I missed you had a fan part…

The RenewAire EV-130 model I have just plugs in for electricity but you do need to run 4 pieces of ductwork which is the hard part.

 

[reef junkie]

Adding an air to air that just pulls from that room and replaces back to that room would not be to hard. Would require a dedicated return air from outside and supply from that room to the air to air. A smaller unit could be purchased from a local hvac supplier. Can’t remember the name but there is one by Figi cube in Blaine just north a little on the same frontage road as Figi cube. I picked up a whole home dehumidifier from them last year. They were very helpful.

 

[BlindSwordsman]

The hardest wear on most motors is the startup, so you probably would be extending its life instead of shortening it by leaving it on 24/7.

I also would venture to guess that if you have a recently built furnace that the power draw for that fan is very low.

OK! I'm having the furnace fan ON now . ... Maybe that will fix whatever it is, or at least I got some good air circulation around the house ... It could just be my imagination. Who knows? I am the Blind Swordsman afterall. I'd rarely know what the heck it is that I'm doing .

Ah sorry I missed you had a fan part…

The RenewAire EV-130 model I have just plugs in for electricity but you do need to run 4 pieces of ductwork which is the hard part.

Maybe I can drill 2 more holes on my house and fit this in, with the 2 holes I have already. This could be the next thing I'd be looking into. Thanks!

Adding an air to air that just pulls from that room and replaces back to that room would not be to hard.

... And .. Goshhh! This comes from the guy who owns 'Durand Construction Services' and me, a big, old nerd! Hahahaha .... But, that sounds encouraging!!!

 

[reef junkie]

. I hired my air to air out. It was a bit more then I wanted to try and figure out. Plus I dont know how to balance the machine to run properly. If your not doing a whole house one and its simply just for the one room i would not think it would be to bad.