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Anyone here have experience with the Genesis Renew Automatic Water Change System? (1 Viewer)

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capman

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Does anyone here have experience with the Genesis Renew Automatic Water Change System?

https://genesisreefsystems.com/products/renew™-basic

I've been contemplating setting up some sort of automatic water change system on my big tank in the lab (total system volume is somewhere in the 360 - 400 gallon range), but I've had concerns with all the systems I've considered:

The Neptune DOS does not seem to have the lifespan I'd want - I does not seem that that unit is designed to be run as continuously as I'd like.

I've considered using two Kamour dosing pumps, but (1) keeping the two pumps matched perfectly in flow seems like a hassle, and (2) I've had some problems with occasional clogging of the inlet (the connection to the peristaltic tubing has a really tiny orifice).

I've considered simply putting an overflow to a floor drain in one of the sump compartments, so I could do water changes by simply pumping water into the tank slowly. But this would complicate (or basically totally thwart) salinity management via automatic topoff - salinity would simply rise gradually due to evaporation.

The Genesis Renew system seems to be the best option I've found so far, and I'm seriously considering getting one of these. What I like is that the matching of volumes of water in and out is not dependent on precise matching of pump flow rates.

And while no system is totally immune from problems, this seems like a pretty solid system (the main worst case scenarios I am envisioning would be failure of the fill pump or fill solenoid. If this failed, without the water removal system also failing, the result would be removal of water without replacement, thus, in combination with an ATO system, causing a drop in salinity. (The opposite scenario, filling without replacement, could be dealt with by having an overflow on the sump that would drain excess water to a floor drain.)

Any thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
 
And here is a video showing how the system is set up:

 
Davy Jones said:
Havent used Genesis before, however GHL Released a Dedicated Maxi pump designed for AWC requirements in mind

https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa/product/ghl-maxi-standalone-black/
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Interesting.

"Need to continuously do larger water changes?
No problem. Our brushless stepper motors are built and ready to withstand larger volume water changes. As with other peristaltic pumps which require a cool-down period, the Doser Maxi’s stepper motors can be run continuously for longer periods without needing a cooling period. For example, you can transport water for a water change at one time without needing a cooling period. Pumps are suitable for moving approximately 16,000 Liters (4,226 gal) of water."​

I'm not sure what "Pumps are suitable for moving approximately 16,000 Liters (4,226 gal) of water" exactly means though. E.g., I'm not sure whether this means they can do this much non-stop, or that after moving this much water the pumps stop working, or that at this point in time the peristaltic tubing and/or pump heads need to be replaced.
 
capman said:
Interesting.

"Need to continuously do larger water changes?
No problem. Our brushless stepper motors are built and ready to withstand larger volume water changes. As with other peristaltic pumps which require a cool-down period, the Doser Maxi’s stepper motors can be run continuously for longer periods without needing a cooling period. For example, you can transport water for a water change at one time without needing a cooling period. Pumps are suitable for moving approximately 16,000 Liters (4,226 gal) of water."​

I'm not sure what "Pumps are suitable for moving approximately 16,000 Liters (4,226 gal) of water" exactly means though. E.g., I'm not sure whether this means they can do this much non-stop, or that after moving this much water the pumps stop working, or that at this point in time the peristaltic tubing and/or pump heads need to be replaced.
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That I do not know, however, if a new pump head was required after 4k gallons of water, on a 400gal system running 10% a week thats a pair of dosing heads every 2 years. Good luck with your search, and definitely interested to hear your experience no matter which route you go with!
 
You could look into dual head continuous duty peristaltic pump, Stenner is the brand I've seen mentioned. One motor drives two heads so they will never drift calibration from each other

I wonder if @marty9876 ever sold his from his selloff
 
I had a Stenner dual head, sold it when sold the tank.

Overall, very pleased with it. 3yrs running changing 5gallons a day and I never serviced it once. Rock solid, simply to run and bullet proof in my experience.

Added benefit is they can deal with large head heights if needed (15-20’). Only con is they are on the noisy, no problem running at night for you Bill I assume.
 
marty9876 said:
Only con is they are on the noisy, no problem running at night for you Bill I assume.
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Holy cow, you are correct, a little more noise would not be a serious concern .... there is LOTS of noise in the back room. I was fairly worried about this at the start (as you know... you were helping me with information about how loud different pumps are), but it does not spill out into the teaching lab space too badly as long as all the panels above and below the tanks are closed, and as long as the doors to the back room are closed.

I actually just put the used Iwaki 100 RLT that I got from you into use on the big skimmer from Bill Wann. It is quite a bit louder than the 55 RLT pumps I have running (I have four of those running as the return pumps on the two big systems, two redundant pumps per system), but the noise level in the teaching lab space is still OK.
 
The Stenner Dual head pump seems like it would be a great option, and would be a much simpler setup than the Genesis system. It would be much simpler to set up, and would have fewer different ways to fail. And if it failed, it would probably just stop both removal of water from the tank and additions of water to the tank, thus reducing the likelihood of the two sorts of potential problems I mentioned above.

I'm assuming this is the pump? https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p...MI8Njc6rT84gIVjuNkCh0ocAg8EAQYAiABEgJDg_D_BwE
 
I'm so glad I started this thread. You folks are a font of knowledge and experience.

The Stenner pump is not cheap, but none of the decent options are.
 
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marty9876 said:
I had a Stenner dual head, sold it when sold the tank.

Overall, very pleased with it. 3yrs running changing 5gallons a day and I never serviced it once. Rock solid, simply to run and bullet proof in my experience.

Added benefit is they can deal with large head heights if needed (15-20’). Only con is they are on the noisy, no problem running at night for you Bill I assume.
Click to expand...

OK, back to the noise. As long as we are talking about this, just how loud is this Stenner pump? Rough comparison to, say the Iwaki pumps?

Truth is though that it seems the pumping capacity is high enough that if this was a problem I could put the pump on a timer to only run in the evening, at night, and very early in the morning, when there would be no classes meeting in the adjacent lab, and I could still move plenty of water.
 
capman said:
OK, back to the noise. As long as we are talking about this, just how loud is this Stenner pump? Rough comparison to, say the Iwaki pumps?

Truth is though that it seems the pumping capacity is high enough that if this was a problem I could put the pump on a timer to only run in the evening, at night, and very early in the morning, when there would be no classes meeting in the adjacent lab, and I could still move plenty of water.
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This is where is got mine/exact model I used - https://www.lockewell.com/index.php...id=160&zenid=38c61bfc6bee69bc6a6d44c489b5bddc

They have different sizes/gph from memory,
One thought I had was to get a higher gph model so it ran less (lower duration of noise but maybe it would be louder?).

As far as how noisy they are - it’s no where close to being excessive. In my house I could hear it in the closet directly above my fish room (pump was mounted high on the wall about 2’ below the floor). Closing the closet door and I could not here it in the master bedroom. Typical residential construction, no Sheetrock on the ceiling of the fish room which would have helped. I’m sure they have a dB rating on this, it would be somewhat less noisy that the Iwaki 100, just a tich higher pitch. I’ve read people mounting them in attics and such hence the high head ratings.

I used float switching both in the sump and the new salt water bin, all had to agree water levels were good to run the Stenner. Again, dead simply to setup. It likely is not perfectly balanced (in/out) but on big systems it’s likely not impactful plus check salinity every now and again anyways. A salinity monitor would have been neat to help balance things to the next level. They come with a nice strainer on the sump intake to keep it from getting plugged.

Expensive but indrustrial things have a way of just working.
 
Thanks so much Marty.

It does not seem that the sound will be an issue. I think I too would be interested in one with greater capacity, for the reason you stated, but also just to give more flexibility in use.

I have a big skimmer on this system, and salinity is continually dropping. It probably would not be a bad thing to err very slightly on the side of having more new water going in than coming out. And as you said, checking and adjusting salinity on a regular basis is something that really ought to be happening anyway.

Having this controlled by level switches in both the sump and in the water storage tank makes a lot of sense (unfortunately, the sump and the storage tank are not close together, but I can make this work) - this would prevent a number of bad things from happening.

I also see that the pump is self priming, meaning that I ought to be able to position the intake in the sump up fairly high so that it can't drain the sump too low in the event of a failure (for any reason) to pump new water into the sump.

Again, I'm so glad I started this thread. While the Genesis Renew looks cool, this dual head pump just makes a lot more sense. Easier to set up, fewer parts to fail, fewer ways of screwing up my system if something goes wrong.
 
Regarding Industrial things just working....

For many years I used "ReefFiller" pumps, which as you probably know were just industrial dosing pumps sold by Champion Lighting, marketed with this name for reef aquarium folks. I suspect these pumps still are available for industrial use (I even was able to get replacement parts one time from a local company in Minneapolis that sold industrial equipment), though it doesn't seem anyone in the aquarium world talks about them anymore.

These ReefFillers pumps ran for years and years and years. I mostly used them to dose calcium hydroxide solution, and in this application I'd have to clean the ball valves once in a while (maybe once a year?), but otherwise most of the ones I had were rock solid for, like ten of more years of heavy use.

I actually still have a dual head ReefFiller, that I used for some time for dosing the two parts of C-Balance. I could probably try using this, though I'm not remembering the maximum gallons per day (and the sound is annoying). I think the dual head Stenner is a better option.
 
I had the complete Genisis system setup it worked flawlessly once configured, a super reliable system I also used it for ATO as well. I dont think you can go wrong if you impliment it.
 
Looks like there are some pro's to both.
I'd say the genesis is much faster with the pumps he's using vs the larger stenner.

I ended up with two separate stenner pumps myself with the notion that I could incorporate a salinity probe and adjust programming to take care of the water changes as well as maintaining salinity. That hasn't happened as a reliable salinity probe application does not exist with the Apex yet. Probably should have went with a dual head.

As for sound... the pumps are directly under my tank in the office. I'd have no problem being on the phone in a quiet setting like this however, I would not prefer to have an appointment in person as it would be a bit distracting (not impossible though). If you set in an open room vs under a cabinet like mine it will be more noticeable (in that room) which isn't always a bad thing since you know it's working.

At 1 gallon-ish it runs for 10 minutes each (Marty's unit might be faster than mine if I remember) and pumps a length of 50' through the ceiling and over to a utility room across the hall. Both pumps are mounted next to each other and I've not seen any difference between volume out vs in. It's rated slightly better at pushing distance vs pulling which concerned me but it's not a concern.

If you go this route only go with the largest diameter of tube they use.
 
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