High Humidity in the house... (1 Viewer)

[RJREEFER]

i thought all new homes built .had to have a air exchange unit installed.i might be wrong but i thought that was code now.i not sure if that's state wide or from city to city .

Maybe I should look into this... However he mentioned that there are other options on the horizon if this doesn't work. I assume he means air exchanger.

 

[RJREEFER]

I'm not going to claim to know much about this becuase i'm an engineer, not a homebuilder, but I'm just curious (for my own knowledge if nothing else) why a better window would cause more condensation. Isn't the point of having good windows with a nice argon space between them to keep heat transfer as low as possible between the panes, i.e. keeping the inside pane the same temp as the room, while the outside pane stays the same temp as outdoors without the two influencing each other's temp by enough to cause issues (like condensation) ? I'm speaking more from just what i've learned in thermodynamics and heat transfer/fluid flow classes though, so I'm just curious how this works.
For example, a cheap single pane window (in my car lets say) cools down to outside temp at night , and when I run the heat, and breathe (letting moisture into the air) the windows fog up, which i assumed was because the inside of the glass is cold and STAYS cold because there's nothing stopping the transfer of heat from occuring readily

Can't help you there fella...my brain hurts right now :coolmad:

 

[re-fin-away]

they might have changed the codes in the last 2 years since I was in it, but 2 years ago there was nothing.
Here is some old info I have on condensation.
The amount of humidity in the air can rise and fall depending upon the temperature of the air. Warm or hot air has the ability to hold much more water vapor than cool or cold air. So the humidity in air is relative. Relative humidity is defined as the percentage of water vapor in a given amount of air at a given temperature. When this percentage gets to 100 percent, the water vapor, a gas, changes from a gas to a liquid. Meteorologists refer to this complete saturation as the dew point.

Water is forming on your new windows because one of several things is happening. The temperature of the inner glass surface is at or below the dew point for the amount of humidity in your inside air. The humidity of your indoor air is quite possibly much higher now with your new windows because the air leaks around your old windows were eliminated once the new windows were installed. Cold, drier air that leaks into homes from the outdoors lowers the relative humidity indoors. This is one reason people have static electricity problems in drafty homes during the winter months. Dry air makes it very easy for the static sparks to transfer from your hands to grounded objects.

Not all windows are made to the same standards. Some new windows may use poor-quality parts and poor construction methods that allow the glass temperature of the inner pane of glass to be much cooler than a well-built window. The cooler pane of glass will show condensation before a warmer pane of glass. This is why an empty drinking glass on a kitchen counter or a piece of glass in a picture frame has no condensation while a window two feet away is fogged up or dripping with water.

 

[redeclipse6049]

two years ago I scored a sweet dehumidifier on K-bid for 20$. it was new in box, and worth 300$ new online.

I have it still, and it's running right next to my bed. dead silent and very powerful. pulls about 2 gallons/day at least.

I also have about 100-150 gallons of water in my room too. plus a fogger for the treefrog.

you should hook that dehumidifier up to a water filter and try to use it as an ATO, haha

 

[Achilles Tang]

they might have changed the codes in the last 2 years since I was in it, but 2 years ago there was nothing.
Here is some old info I have on condensation.
The amount of humidity in the air can rise and fall depending upon the temperature of the air. Warm or hot air has the ability to hold much more water vapor than cool or cold air. So the humidity in air is relative. Relative humidity is defined as the percentage of water vapor in a given amount of air at a given temperature. When this percentage gets to 100 percent, the water vapor, a gas, changes from a gas to a liquid. Meteorologists refer to this complete saturation as the dew point.

Water is forming on your new windows because one of several things is happening. The temperature of the inner glass surface is at or below the dew point for the amount of humidity in your inside air. The humidity of your indoor air is quite possibly much higher now with your new windows because the air leaks around your old windows were eliminated once the new windows were installed. Cold, drier air that leaks into homes from the outdoors lowers the relative humidity indoors. This is one reason people have static electricity problems in drafty homes during the winter months. Dry air makes it very easy for the static sparks to transfer from your hands to grounded objects.

Not all windows are made to the same standards. Some new windows may use poor-quality parts and poor construction methods that allow the glass temperature of the inner pane of glass to be much cooler than a well-built window. The cooler pane of glass will show condensation before a warmer pane of glass. This is why an empty drinking glass on a kitchen counter or a piece of glass in a picture frame has no condensation while a window two feet away is fogged up or dripping with water.

Good answer, to take it a step farther the simple answer is ALL windows have a point at which they will condensate regardless of if you have a tank or not. It is a magic number for each window of surface temp and indoor humidty.

That all said if your home is new it should have a air echanger. If is does not there is a timed exhusted system hooked into the HVAC. By adjusting which ever system you have you can use it to over come you indoor humity problem MOST of the time. There is a trade off as you will use more energy to maintain your home temps. The easy solution is get a good dehumidifer and if possible put it somewhere on the same floor as your tank and plumb a drain line from the humidifier to a floor drain/ or empty it often.

 

[CaptainGreg]

Turn on the Air Exchanger if you got the new house. Make sure your air exchanger filter is clean.

That way you are eject the humid air to the out side.

 

[CaptainGreg]

I thought it is the law to have air exchanger in new house to keep toxic gas from building up in the house.

 

[David Grigor]

Dehumidifier may work since your tank is small. However back when I had the 375g running and evaporating 8gallons a day, the dehumidifier was constantly running at 600w so is not the most effecient way with larger tanks. Long term, you need a fresh air exchanger installed.

 

[RJREEFER]

Builder says it's not code for a townhome to have an exchanger installed "d/t size..." I have a 2,000 sq ft townhome...I don't think that's small but what do I know... The dehumidifier is an option to think about, but yes I don't want to be burning through more electricity.

 

[redlion4]

If you plan to live there for a while, install an air exchanger, assuming the town house is forced air heating. It will payback over running a dehumidifer.

I would also suggest researching the code for air exchangers / town houses on your own - through your city offices (building inspectors). You still may be able to get the builder to either foot the bill, or meet you half way.

I installed our air exchanger last year (myself!), after getting new windows and siding. It works great and solved all moisture issues in the house. Total DIY project cost was ~$1400 (sized for 2500 ft2, with vaulted ceilings). And for any doubters, yes, I got a permit and it passed city inspection on the first try! Here is a good place to start.

 

[Fragtastic Reef]

I also have humidity problems although im running alot of tanks too. I run a dehumidifier 24/7.

From the code that I have heard any new home within the last couple years is required to have an air exchanger of some kind. When and what year was the townhome built?

 

[RJREEFER]

I also have humidity problems although im running alot of tanks too. I run a dehumidifier 24/7.

From the code that I have heard any new home within the last couple years is required to have an air exchanger of some kind. When and what year was the townhome built?

I live in Shakopee. Townhome was built in 2009

 

[RJREEFER]

Good answer, to take it a step farther the simple answer is ALL windows have a point at which they will condensate regardless of if you have a tank or not. It is a magic number for each window of surface temp and indoor humidty.

That all said if your home is new it should have a air echanger. If is does not there is a timed exhusted system hooked into the HVAC. By adjusting which ever system you have you can use it to over come you indoor humity problem MOST of the time. There is a trade off as you will use more energy to maintain your home temps. The easy solution is get a good dehumidifer and if possible put it somewhere on the same floor as your tank and plumb a drain line from the humidifier to a floor drain/ or empty it often.

I don't believe there is any timed exhaust system installed. I have never heard the furnace or any other fan/device running in that closet unless I set the thermostat to call for heat.

 

[Achilles Tang]

Yes townhome falls under multi-housing and has different codes so based on the size the builder is correct in this case.

 

[redlion4]

Call your city office to ask/verify. Minnesota state building code chapters 1322 and 1323 cover the requirements. 1322 is listed as "residential", covering single family homes and 1-2 family town homes. 1323 is listed as "commercial", and applies to everything else (slide 4 from the presentation linked here - http://www.mngreencommunities.org/gbd/2009/presentations/NewMNEnergyCode_and_Overlay.pdf )

edit - Chad is in the business, so it looks like there may be no recourse with the builder. Still nothing preventing you from adding one.

 

[Chad Vossen]

you should hook that dehumidifier up to a water filter and try to use it as an ATO, haha

I do actually

 

[Goby-Wan Kenobi]

I have the same problem. I just put new windows and siding on my house. Have is sealed up tighter than a drum. Then the moisture problems. Home builders say all new houses are like this now and suggested drilling a three inch hole in my wall and stick in some pvc piping. I just bought a dehumidifier. If you can get one for 20 bucks like posted above do it. I bought mine online from Refurb king. Prices are good free shipping and a warranty.

 

[Stony2977]

I'm not going to claim to know much about this becuase i'm an engineer, not a homebuilder, but I'm just curious (for my own knowledge if nothing else) why a better window would cause more condensation. Isn't the point of having good windows with a nice argon space between them to keep heat transfer as low as possible between the panes, i.e. keeping the inside pane the same temp as the room, while the outside pane stays the same temp as outdoors without the two influencing each other's temp by enough to cause issues (like condensation) ? I'm speaking more from just what i've learned in thermodynamics and heat transfer/fluid flow classes though, so I'm just curious how this works.
For example, a cheap single pane window (in my car lets say) cools down to outside temp at night , and when I run the heat, and breathe (letting moisture into the air) the windows fog up, which i assumed was because the inside of the glass is cold and STAYS cold because there's nothing stopping the transfer of heat from occuring readily

While everything you just said is true. Unfortunately the people that design the windows don't take into consideration the excess humidity that a large reef tank gives off. Yes. The better window you buy the better it will be but there is still heat transfer. With heat transfer in an excessively high humidity home you will get condensation.

One thing that has helped me in the winter months is to use glass covers on my tanks. I know most people prefer not to do this because of lighting issues but it will make a huge difference. I just clean the glass of salt and crud once a week then remove in spring.