Orchid Dottyback - Issues? (1 Viewer)

[Varig]

Hey team -

Curious if anyone thinks I should be being more active to "fix" anything with my Orchid Dottyback. Here is the situation.

When I had her in the QT tank (solo) she always seemed fine. She hid a lot, but also came out and swam around too. But always at feeding time she was very active to come out and "hunt" the food. Around a month ago she went into the DT with 2 clowns, 2 Benngai cardinals, YWG, and a Starry Blenny. She generally seemed happy and I thought at the time I'd still see her come out to aggressively feed etc.

THEN I thought I noticed that it looked like she was "breathing heavy". Meaning, I see quite a bit of gill activity, like I can physically watch them open and close.

After that I thought it seemed like she was less interested in eating. She does still eat, she just doesn't seem as "aggressive" with the eating. She'll let food pass by in front of her, whereas before she seemed to actively pursue it. That being said, I don't see her looking "pinched" or thin, she generally still looks like a fairly fat torpedo.

Finally, today I noticed that it looks like she has some thin spots in her tail fin. This one made me wonder "is she getting bullied when the lights are out?" I've checked on them several times (including weird hours) and I've never seen that. She is a fairly small fish and slides into some really small holes in the rocks, so I feel like she has space to hide.

Anyway, I could be "overreacting", but I just get the feeling she isn't acting as normally as she used to. So just curious if folks have experience with any of this and/or if you think I'm being crazy.

Frankly I don't know what I would even treat her for, unless it is stress from aggression, whereas then just getting alone time in the QT tank might be all she needs. Anyway, thoughts?

Thanks very much for your insights,
David

 

[Mandarin_Jake]

How big is the starry Blenny? They can tend to be aggressive, and they have similar body type to dottybacks.

 

[Varig]

The blenny is a lot bigger, probably 2x longer and 3x larger in diameter. He’s the biggest fish in the tank by far. So I’d expect the orchid could get into a small enough hole?

They are out and about together during the day and I’ve never seen anything. But maybe again in the wee hours?

 

[superman]

It's

Hey team -

Curious if anyone thinks I should be being more active to "fix" anything with my Orchid Dottyback. Here is the situation.

When I had her in the QT tank (solo) she always seemed fine. She hid a lot, but also came out and swam around too. But always at feeding time she was very active to come out and "hunt" the food. Around a month ago she went into the DT with 2 clowns, 2 Benngai cardinals, YWG, and a Starry Blenny. She generally seemed happy and I thought at the time I'd still see her come out to aggressively feed etc.

THEN I thought I noticed that it looked like she was "breathing heavy". Meaning, I see quite a bit of gill activity, like I can physically watch them open and close.

After that I thought it seemed like she was less interested in eating. She does still eat, she just doesn't seem as "aggressive" with the eating. She'll let food pass by in front of her, whereas before she seemed to actively pursue it. That being said, I don't see her looking "pinched" or thin, she generally still looks like a fairly fat torpedo.

Finally, today I noticed that it looks like she has some thin spots in her tail fin. This one made me wonder "is she getting bullied when the lights are out?" I've checked on them several times (including weird hours) and I've never seen that. She is a fairly small fish and slides into some really small holes in the rocks, so I feel like she has space to hide.

Anyway, I could be "overreacting", but I just get the feeling she isn't acting as normally as she used to. So just curious if folks have experience with any of this and/or if you think I'm being crazy.

Frankly I don't know what I would even treat her for, unless it is stress from aggression, whereas then just getting alone time in the QT tank might be all she needs. Anyway, thoughts?

Thanks very much for your insights,
David

Hard to say, your observations are probably correct, but it's hard to know what to do to help the dottyback. Letting things ride would be perfectly acceptable, and see if things change at all. I can't remember if you've added corals to your tank already? If not, it may be an option to lower your salinity slightly to help with respiration.

 

[Varig]

No corals yet (but that was going to be a this weekend project (IT'S TIME DARNIT! I feel like a full 6 month wait for a first time reefer has got to be some sort of record ), but if that would help I could for sure do so.

I guess I've also thought about trying to catch her and just put her back into the QT tank solo to see what happens. If she calms down and goes back to normal, then I guess I can say with certainty it was aggression and decide what to do next. If she stays like that, then maybe I start thinking it is some sort of sickness, and she's already in QT, ready to treat.

The question is...can I catch her even.

 

[Reefer Oz]

Welcome to reef keeping!

Not only is it difficult to diagnose issues with fish, many treatment options are very stressful and can put fish beyond their limits. So tough to make those decisions. On one hand is doing nothing neglecting a issue that could be remedied or allowing a situation to work itself out? Or will that act of catching and QT be the solution or the straw that breaks the camels back? So is our plight!

In my tank there is a Starry Blenny and a Royal Gramma (closest comparison from my experience). The Blenny is one of the first fish to find it’s spot to sleep for the night. And even though it is the largest and most “aggressive” fish, it isn’t a bully by any means (that I have seen). Behavioral generalization are hard for me to get behind sometimes.

And sometimes we just get fish with trauma we can’t see or an undiagnosable condition or they are already 10yrs old. Without clear evidence, any cause of death is just speculation. Cyanide capturing methods use (and still do imagine) to affect many fish in a similar manor to what you are describing, healthy for a time then quick decline several months down the road. So even if this particular fish doesn’t make it, it may have little to do with its time in your care.

Your observations are astute as usual. Your concern is valid from my perspective. The options and the outcome are always tricky to navigate. Keep us posted!

And by the way……I went 8 months fishless start and 10 months before coral was introduced in my main system! . My friend, there should be no rush in a craft with lifelong potential!

 

[Varig]

Haha, I hear that. No easy calls it seems. I do agree that it seems like the Blenny finds a sleeping spot pretty early on. I also know the one Benngai was a total dick to one of the Benngai's I added, BUT that was within a species. I've never seen him do anything to the other fish. I dunno. I'll definitely keep an eye on her and decide if an intervention is required. And I'll keep you guys up to speed.

And by the way……I went 8 months fishless start and 10 months before coral was introduced in my main system! . My friend, there should be no rush in a craft with lifelong potential!

Impressive my friend. I feel like the more traditional story I read for a first reef tank on R2R is:

Yesterday: "I started my first reef tank. Woo woo."
Today: "Man, I'm pretty sure my cycle already finished, this is awesome. Got my first SPS!!"
Tomorrow: "GUYS HELP, my SPS is browning out. What do I do????!"

I thought I was being all patient for a newbie. You put me to shame

 

[Varig]

One more quick update today. I was watching her again and she swims with her mouth almost totally open (which I feel like is definitely different than when I watched her in the QT tank). And she also had some stringy white poop. I've seen that before in my clown fish, at the time I was worried it was internal parasites or whatever, so I fed them food laced with Metroplex/API general cure or whatever the HumbleFish recipe was. But I've also seen it after the fact from the frozen mysis/LRS diet. I dunno. But if either the mouth of the white poop gave anyone additional items regarding her heavy breathing and less interest in eating, I figured I'd add it in.

 

[Varig]

Well, sad news to report. This morning she was dead . Her mouth was still open and she has a little bit of pop-eye on the one side (I hadn't noticed that before, so I don't know if it happened as part of the death process or what). Anyway, I have removed her from the tank. I wish I knew what what wrong, especially if it was my fault, so I can prevent it in the future. Hrm.

 

[Reefer Oz]

Damn dude, that’s a bummer. Always sucks when critter’s die. But I really think you did all you could. Is this the first fish you have had die?

It would be great as you say for prevention’s sake to know the cause. Some people will do a necropsy and that can give some clues. But I think far too often it is unclear.

You are doing a great job of being observant and aware of what is going on in your system. Keep an eye on the other fish. Stay the course and keep reefing HARD duder!

 

[Varig]

Yea, first loss from a fish that we had more than a couple days. Our sixline wrasse died, but it had only been in the tank for 2 days, so while it was sad we hadn’t gotten attached yet. This is the first one the kiddos have to “deal” with, since they had named her etc. Definitely really sad to lose a fish that should have lived for years to come. I wish I knew what happened. I’m not really sure where I would start with a necropsy. My one regret is not doing an immediate freshwater dip (she’s in the fridge now) to check for flukes?

Alas.

 

[superman]

sucks to lose the dottyback, but you'll most likely never know what really happened, only have some rough guesses. Stay the course, and keep an eye on the current inhabitants. Wait about a month before you add another fish. It's a rough when kids start naming fish and then stuff happens to the fish. It's hard to limit how much other people immediately get attached to a fish, when the only feelings/expectations that you can truly manage are only your own.
The only thing you could probably do in prevention is to add a UV, but that's more plumbing and potentially difficult to retrofit in your situation.