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Removing Sugar SB. Worth it? (1 Viewer)

.Marshall

.Marshall

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I'm contemplating removing my Sugar-Size Sand Bed and replacing it with either Caribsea Aragonite Fiji Pink (0.5-1.0 mm grain size), or Aragonite Special Grade Reed Sand (1.25–1.95 mm grain size). With 1 Mp40 and 2 Mp10's my 75g turns into a little bit of a sand storm when they kick up to full speed, which in turn after a couple days dunes up in some places and piles up on rocks in others. I'm wondering the effects it will have on my (few) but already established SPS corals and Fish. Should I plan on removing the fish for a while so no harm is done? What kind of water parameter shifts can I expect (Nitrate through the roof?), and finally what other sands would you recommend?

If I do decide to do this, I plan on removing water until the my tallest coral is at the surface, then I would just take a scoop or cup and scoop it out 1 by 1 until most of it is out. Then filling it back up again, resulting in a pretty nice 75% water change.

Thoughts?
 
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After thinking about it I am thinking that when stirring up my sandbed now will stress out my corals and fish way to much, I have a 40B on hand I think I may put all my LR/corals and fish in there with all the old tank water and just go to town on the 75 without anything in there, would probably be a faster process anyway.

SmnParish said:
Worth it, you could cycle the sand in a separate container.
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Would the new dry sand cycle? There is nothing live on it.. I dont think I would get a cycle if I decided to go the route of transferring everything to my 40B.
 
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It may not have dead matter that needs to cycle, but you may want to seed it with bacteria before taking out a lot of established bacteria.
 
why not just syphen out all the sand at the same time kill two birds with one stone that way you stir up less stuff into water collum
 
It depends on how deep of sandbed we are talking. If just an inch or two, just siphon it out as part of a water change. Perhaps do just a little bit at a time over the course of a couple of weeks. Live rock should be plenty of filtration during the process of removing.

Don't have to get all of it either. As you siphon the new substrate with your maintenance schedule over time the finer stuff will eventually all get removed.

Since we are only talking about a 75g, Adding substrate to an already existing tank the arago-live special reef sand. Wont' cost much more than dry. Not becuase if supposedly has live bacteria but becuase it's already rinsed and ready to go so don't cause a big mess and clears up very quickly. I like to use 1.5" pvc pipe to pour it into to reach the bottom and direct it where you want it to go.
 
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David Grigor said:
It depends on how deep of sandbed we are talking. If just an inch or two, just siphon it out as part of a water change. Perhaps do just a little bit at a time over the course of a couple of weeks. Live rock should be plenty of filtration during the process of removing.

Don't have to get all of it either. As you siphon the new substrate with your maintenance schedule over time the finer stuff will eventually all get removed.

Since we are only talking about a 75g, Adding substrate to an already existing tank the arago-live special reef sand. Wont' cost much more than dry. Not becuase if supposedly has live bacteria but becuase it's already rinsed and ready to go so don't cause a big mess and clears up very quickly. I like to use 1.5" pvc pipe to pour it into to reach the bottom and direct it where you want it to go.
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Thanks DG, I think this is what I will do. I just need to go to petco and get a siphon(-er) does the faucet have to be below the water level in the tank? The only faucet I have near the tank that had plenty of space for the attatchment is a spigot over my water heater. My basement bathroom's sink is to shallow for it. Will that spigot work? it's about 20ft away from the tank in my laundry room, and about 2ft higher than the water level in the DT.
 
Nah. Just any old hose will do. Just go to Meanards and get a 10' of 1/2" tubing or something. Just use the old mouth on end and suck method vs. connecting to a faucet. Since your siphoning out the gravel you wouldn't want it to go directly to a drain. Just use a tub or bucket that you have lying around.
 
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David Grigor said:
Nah. Just any old hose will do. Just go to Meanards and get a 10' of 1/2" tubing or something. Just use the old mouth on end and suck method vs. connecting to a faucet. Since your siphoning out the gravel you wouldn't want it to go directly to a drain. Just use a tub or bucket that you have lying around.
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Easy enough, Thanks again.

Which would be better; siphoning out all old sand little by little until I pretty much habe a bare-bottom and then add the new reef sand OR everytime (every other, depending on bag size) I siphon out old sugar sand add new reef sand to the existing sand bed. The sugar sand should siphon out while the added reef sand tumbles correct?

What sand do you have in your 180 DG? Just curious about grain size diameter, etc.
 
Handled Wrong

We just did this the wrong way and accidently cycled our tank during a move. I HIGHLY recommend that you follow David's advice to the tee. He could have saved us a ton if we would have asked the right questions before we made our mistake. I swear by his advice.

Thanks

Dan and Caleb Lockwood
 
myboysmommy said:
We just did this the wrong way and accidently cycled our tank during a move. I HIGHLY recommend that you follow David's advice to the tee. He could have saved us a ton if we would have asked the right questions before we made our mistake. I swear by his advice.

Thanks

Dan and Caleb Lockwood
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ha! I plan to follow his advice down to the last detail, as well as figure out all the logistics before hand :) Thanks!
 
If you're doing this, I recommend getting a bottle of bacteria and checking your levels DAILY. Use a splash of the bottle every once in a while - it definitely won't hurt, and will DEFINITELY help if there is any cycle.
 
Did you mention how deep we area talking and how established it is ? Months old, years old ? If it's only a couple inches in depth the likely hood of anerobic zone and sulphuric acid developing is probably pretty low. But if there is any of those zones in a well established bed that is 3"+, disturbing can be real trouble especially if large portions. Just a little at a time is best.


Special Reef Grade is what I use. Retrofitting an existing tank I use the live stuff ( not becuase of the advertised bacteria but because it's clean and no dust ) especially if it will require only a bag or two. Now if it needed hundreds of pounds I wouldn't spend the money but just a couple of bags is worth it. I on purpose don't keep any fish like sand sifting gobies trade off just not worth it to me. Once you have gone barebottom for a while and realize how much crap accumulates in just one week was enough for me to realize I would never use sugar sized again. I only keep enough for aethetics reasons and keep is siphoned regularly. I don't necessarily do a water change at the same time, I just use a gravel siphon and have the other end go to a filter sock in the sump that way can take as much time as needed and not limited by how large my water change is going to be.
 
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David Grigor said:
Did you mention how deep we area talking and how established it is ? Months old, years old ? If it's only a couple inches in depth the likely hood of anerobic zone and sulphuric acid developing is probably pretty low. But if there is any of those zones in a well established bed that is 3"+, disturbing can be real trouble especially if large portions. Just a little at a time is best.
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The sugar sand bend I have now is about an 1" to 2.5" deep in some places, and it is about 5 months old, so relatively new.

I was thinking about leaving a thin layer of sugar sand underneath the Fiji Pink, or Special reef grade, good idea? Bad? Somewhere in between? Lol.. Something like .25" to .5" of sugar sand underneath a 1" to 1.5" layer of the larger stuff. I just don't plan on having much of a fuge capable of a DSB, only Macro Algaes.
 
acharpenter said:
What is the thought process behind leaving some of the sugar sand in?

To help build a DSB?
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While I was researching today I came across a thread on RC going over the advantages and disadvantages of the different sand types etc. If I remember correctly they discussed how sugar sand was a great sand for the denitrification process because of its small grain size (great DSB) but for a high flow tank its just too much of a hassle because of the turbulence.

By leaving some of the sugar sand at the bottom I could still have a nice denitrification factory underneath the larger, much easier sand to siphon gunk out of, that doesn't get blown to heck when I turn the vortechs up!

Right now I have my vortech quite high on the left side (approximately 4-5" from the water level and when it kicks up to 100% the undertoe pulls sand from 30" - 36" away off the sand bed and sucks it into the water column! I need bigger sand grains! Lol.

But then again I could be wrong about the whole "leaving the sugar sand" portion, I am only 6 months young into this but I have way to much free time at work to do anything but look up reef stuff everyday! :)

!W00t 500 posts! :jester:
 
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I'm no expert but from what I remember when I was doing research on a DSB for denitrification purposes - you need to have at least 3-4" in order for it to be worth it.


I'd say just get rid of it all

Also - I hope peeps are giving DG some rep for all of his contributions here :bow:
 
The depth your talking about isn't going to make much if any difference. 1-2" you can safely remove without much worry about disruption. It's not enough to provide denitrification even if it's under the larger grains. There is greater benefit of keeping the detritus out by removing during siphoning than you would get by trying to keep undistrubed at such shallow depth.

You could just stick the new larger grains on top and eventually all the sugar will get siphoned out as you clean it. Like Angie said it may help get the new stuff seeded quicker too.
 
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