Supplying ATS from sump return pump (1 Viewer)

[Leicester56]

So. Thinking of adding an ATS to my sump system and looking for suggestions. I am designing a vertical algae turf scrubber and trying to figure out two things. First. . Where to bring the water from. I want my filter sock to take debris out of the water prior to the ATS so I do not wish to feed it from my Esopps overflow box. I was wondering if anyone had used an oversized return pump and split the return so part of it is diverted back to an ATS that drains into the sump. Second, any product recommendations for LEDs for lighting on either side of the ATS ( which will be housed in an acrylic box. Cheers!

 

[patent]

I can't help with the LEDs, other than to say Grigor is having luck with the fixture he bought on Ebay, look at his threads.

Splitting the return pump's flow works well for me. When I first started in the hobby I thought the return pumps had to be much larger than I do now, so I have a couple pumps much larger than I need. I just use a standard PVC T to split the flow, and a valve to control how much goes into the ATS. Works fine, but be warned you need to have an idea how much flow you need, and I tend to think that the way most ATS are constructed underestimating the head pressure in an ATS can be a problem. The ATS flow typically doesn't exit through a round nozel, but through a slit cut along a pvc pipe or whatever, so I tend to think you need a bit more power than you instinctively expect. JMHO.

 

[Kepler]

Lots of people run a manifold off their return pump to feed reactors, scrubbers, etc. Not too hard to do just make sure your pump is big enough to handle it.

 

[David Grigor]

I don't see any need or valid reason why to attempt to filter water with a sock prior to feeding an ats. I've been feeding mine directly from herbie overflow for 2 years with no issue and wouldn't do anything different as its gravity fed flow that is free of air and no additional electrical costs. The only downside to such is the size of ATS is limited by your return pump and how much gph your overflow can safely handle. For me, about 800gph is the max so I'm pretty much limited to a 18"ish long ATS.


Y ing off your return pump directly obviously you need to oversize your pump and thus using more electricity than necessary. For me another 800gph size would increase the pump costs significantly as well.

 

[marty9876]

Yea, if you can feed from an overflow it's always free money more or less. I never have but that's just a lack of trying on my part. Somethings it's best not to pre-filter the water (skimmers), some things it is (reactors), somethings like an ATS it don't really matter one way or the other.

I've got a larger than average ATS going online tonight with two LED lights, check my build thread for details later on.

 

[seanahmad78]

This is a horrible drawing of the idea I've been tossing around in my head for the sump I already have. It's would be a 24" tray going in an angle with a red T5, dumping from the tank to the tray and then the sump.

 

[cheezybuda]

This is a horrible drawing of the idea I've been tossing around in my head for the sump I already have. It's would be a 24" tray going in an angle with a red T5, dumping from the tank to the tray and then the sump.

The only thing that is horrible is that I can't see the drawing

 

[seanahmad78]

Lol, I'm still trying to post it. Too big of a file. One sec

 

[seanahmad78]

 

[ArstenA]

Funny your looking into a horizontal ATS.

I am in the design stage for one too.

I know that if I get light in my overflow, the damn thing can grow algae like its out of style. So I am thinking about mimicking the characteristics of an overflow to create a ATS.

I don't have space for a vertical ATS like others are using...

 

[Leicester56]

From what I have read, you do not necessarily need all that much vertical space. I have read that you need about 1 square inch per gallon if lighted on both sides. Also, I have seen suggestions for about 35 gallons of water flow per inch of slit that the scrubber hangs from. In theory, with 350 gph draining into the sump you could make a 10" long and 6" high ( my skimmer alone sticks 6 inches above my sump) and scrub enough for a 60 gallon tank. Also, many sumps have water levels well below the rim of sump, potentially adding additional space. this is my current plan. Now I just need to figure out how to wire an LED system. ( electrical work is not my forte). Anyone using RapidLED.com? If so, are you using 660nm red LEDs?

 

[David Grigor]

keep in mine that is just a rough estimate, it's very hard to measure if running a pump becuase of the head pressure loss and the flow loss from the slot. I'd error on the higher side, not enough flow is going to be far more of a performance killer, I don't really think you can have too much flow. DC pump is really really nice for this application as you can dial up or down as needed and not wasting electricity if having to restrict a pump.

Rarely will you get all three parameters right the first time, screen size, flow, light. It will take several tweaks on one or all 3 to get it dialed in. So best to make the elclosure bigger and the spray bar longer. You can always start with a smaller length slot.

On mine for the ( was a 75g , now a 120 ), I made large enough for a single sided with ability to go double sided later ( just add light ). Glad I did as I eventually out grew ( both increased livestock and tank upgrade ).

 

[Leicester56]

Perhaps I could get an idea of drainage by making just the pvc ( with slot) portion, hook it up with flexible tubing of the appropriate size to my overflow and then measure actual output by determining how long it takes to fill up a container of known volume? That way, I can play around with different slot lengths to find out just how long I can make it ( since I only have 8 total inches of vertical space my total square inches is limited by how long the slot can be).

 

[David Grigor]

Again, its still just a basic quildline even if you measured exactly 35gph per inch. I'm quite positive I'm running higher than that guidline. You may find for your application that you need more especially as algae matures and grows really thick ( depending on the type you get to grow ) you may need to increase. So for sure build in flexability for all 3 variables, light/flow,screen. It will take a while ( and really never finish ) to find what maximizes the best harvest.

One of the hardest things is getting the water to flow evenly across the whole slot ( the longer it is the more challenging ). Becuase the water pressure will suprisingly be higher on the far end than the front end ( unless your flow is way too low and doesn't even reach the far end ) so you will need to tweak the slot over time and enlarge one area more than the other etc. to get a more consistant flow.

Now I just need to figure out how to wire an LED system. ( electrical work is not my forte). Anyone using RapidLED.com? If so, are you using 660nm red LEDs?

Based on my experiences with LEDs on ATS, you want to use 120 degree leds, no lens. Too focused will just burn and algae will not grow on that area of the screen. I'd also totally avoid the blues. Just stick with all red leds, the blues are much more punch than the reds and again more trouble than worth and probably algae will get burned in those areas. Red only leds still produces awesome results and less trouble getting dialed in.

I used the $1.99 leds from groupbuyled. Rapid leds are pretty expensive and overkill for this application. But if ordering other things from rapid it may offset the cost in lower shipping costs to just buy all from one place.

If you thinking of a 8X10 or so area, 8 Leds per side should be plenty with 120degree leds. You also want to be flexiable with how you mount the leds. So that you can move them in closer or out further depending on spread and/or burning. Dimmer could help with the burning but throw distance for fine tuning is better for both spread and burning issues.

can't iterate enough is to be flexable as your not going to get it right the first time no matter what planning you do and as time goes by it will also change just like everything else in your tank.

 

[seanahmad78]

So I was have been going over different ideas. Some where I make a system from scratch and others where I'm attempting to repurpose a container of some sort as the tray. I keep coming back to the thought of the screen contained inside of a plastic bag that has the bottom removed to act as a tube. I'm sure there are flaws to the idea, but I keep thinking about it.