Two new builds. Two headaches. What are we doing wrong? (1 Viewer)

[KJoFan]

Sorry to hear it! I'm curious I wonder what would happen if you removed the sand. It looks like dinos are localized there at least. Did your TBS rock help? Also I'm curious have you ID'd your dinos?

I just ordered Dr. Tim's Refresh and Waste Away. I'm not going to go hard with it but maybe some casual dosing will help turn things around. May do a blackout also.

It may help to remove the sand and I’ve actually removed probably half already. But, I have several leopard wrasses and some sand is required for them. So I’m not sure I will remove more at this point.

Honestly I don’t know they are dinos other than past experience. I don’t have a microscope or anything to ID them. Hence the ? Behind the word.

I’ve gone the waste away and refresh route previously. It does work. It worked for me at the time along with a blackout. So might be worth a shot for you.

I did not end up with any of the TBS rock due to logistics of picking it up and distance between us. I did get and add a few small pieces of rock from someone’s cryptic fuge though with a lot of diverse life. Unsure if they did much though.

To be fair, I’ve had a lot of upset in my tank in the past six months with combatting algae (still have it) and swapping out of a bunch of my live rock for different. I’m also currently fallow after the appearance of velvet on one of my fish. I be a few weeks left of that which could be playing into the imbalance as well.


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[Nezw0001]

I've had a similar experience since moving my tank to our new home about 1.5 yrs ago. Got it mostly under control but still lingering minor issues. Thinking of doing a TBS order and adding it to my sump.

 

[KJoFan]

I've had a similar experience since moving my tank to our new home about 1.5 yrs ago. Got it mostly under control but still lingering minor issues. Thinking of doing a TBS order and adding it to my sump.

Did you do anything specific to get it under control or let it run it’s course?


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[Nezw0001]

I added a UV sterilizer, dosed nitrate and phosphate, feed more, took my skimmer off line, added pods and phyto, did the dr Tims waste away and refresh protocol and started a refugium.

 

[coralreefer]

It may help to remove the sand and I’ve actually removed probably half already. But, I have several leopard wrasses and some sand is required for them. So I’m not sure I will remove more at this point.

Honestly I don’t know they are dinos other than past experience. I don’t have a microscope or anything to ID them. Hence the ? Behind the word.

I’ve gone the waste away and refresh route previously. It does work. It worked for me at the time along with a blackout. So might be worth a shot for you.

I did not end up with any of the TBS rock due to logistics of picking it up and distance between us. I did get and add a few small pieces of rock from someone’s cryptic fuge though with a lot of diverse life. Unsure if they did much though.

To be fair, I’ve had a lot of upset in my tank in the past six months with combatting algae (still have it) and swapping out of a bunch of my live rock for different. I’m also currently fallow after the appearance of velvet on one of my fish. I be a few weeks left of that which could be playing into the imbalance as well.


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Sorry to hear about the velvet it really does suck. Glad you're doing the fallow period and getting it under control! I have refresh and waste away on order I'm just hoping it ships well with the colder temperatures.

I added a UV sterilizer, dosed nitrate and phosphate, feed more, took my skimmer off line, added pods and phyto, did the dr Tims waste away and refresh protocol and started a refugium.

What UV sterilizer did you go with? I've debated getting a Pentair or Aqua UV but am still holding out a little hope that I can correct it without. Currently dosing NO3/PO4 and Ostreopsis dinos are loving it oddly enough.

 

[Nezw0001]

Sorry to hear about the velvet it really does suck. Glad you're doing the fallow period and getting it under control! I have refresh and waste away on order I'm just hoping it ships well with the colder temperatures.


What UV sterilizer did you go with? I've debated getting a Pentair or Aqua UV but am still holding out a little hope that I can correct it without. Currently dosing NO3/PO4 and Ostreopsis dinos are loving it oddly enough.

Im using pentair aquatics HO 80 W. Seems like bulbs need to be replaced every 10 months or so. I notice more issues when I get to the end of that lifetime.

 

[KJoFan]

What UV sterilizer did you go with? I've debated getting a Pentair or Aqua UV but am still holding out a little hope that I can correct it without. Currently dosing NO3/PO4 and Ostreopsis dinos are loving it oddly enough.

I am using an older (new bulb though) Aqua UV 57w unit on a net volume system around 200 gallons. It definitely improves water clarity. i think it was also keeping some of the uglies at bay because I shut mine down for a little while and that's when that stuff seemed to take off a bit more, so I've started it back up now to see if that helps any.

 

[Mordim]

Currently dosing NO3/PO4 and Ostreopsis dinos are loving it oddly enough.

I haven't dealt with Dino's yet. But from all I've read, it works best to stop water changes and dosing nutrients as part of the fight against Dino's.

 

[Nezw0001]

I haven't dealt with Dino's yet. But from all I've read, it works best to stop water changes and dosing nutrients as part of the fight against Dino's.

To me, it seems like Dinos are more complicated than that. I truly believe it has to do with overall diversity of the ecosystem. I've done all the stock recommendation for Dinos, and they are mostly under control. BUT if my UV bulb gets old OR i clean out my sump OR get too aggressive on filter socks they come back. Unfortunately then Cyano peeks in. So for me it is a constant battle/balancing act between cyano and dinos. My old tank was started with real live rock and had none of these problems.

 

[VikingsCrazy]

I just set up a new 60 gallon about two months ago. I have also set up a 120 fatboy and a 40 breeder in the last 2 years. The 120 was set up at the same time as @Adam G set up his big tank. Him and I both did tons of research ahead of time and read many many build threads. We had several discussions on what we felt was the best way to set up a new tank with bleached or new rock without having to worry about new tank syndrome. We were both very successful in doing so. Not trying to brag. Just hopefully help others. The keys to success are definitively adding many different live bacteria cultures and as much of the actual ocean(live rock and sand from salty bottom reef in our case) you can get your hands on. As well as in our case from as many different established aquariums as you are willing to take the chance on. Even one small piece of live rock could have a strain of bacteria you do not already have. We both added live ocean sand from the live rock vendor(lots of surface area for millions of years old bacteria to cultivate). In Adam's case he hid the rock in the sump for all you people that need your tank to be perfect and sterile looking. In my case I mixed it all in in different places of my Display as well as my sump. We both added extra bacteria from multiple sources. Dr.Tim's, coraline algae in a bottle, and tunze care bacter for me. I truly believe many people are so worried about having a sterile looking pest free tank that they totally set aside or forget that the ocean is a dirty dirty place. If you want to have a piece of the ocean in your home without so many problems from day one then the most logical thing to do would be to start with actual pieces of the ocean in your aquarium. Quit being scared! Just take a couple hours to search EVERY little crack and hole when you receive your rock and take a chance. I reccomend to make sure you use the "pick it up at the airport option". This ensures the least amount of die off possible. You spend all this time, effort, and energy on your aquarium, so please take the 20min-2hr drive needed to have the best result. With great risk often comes great reward. I hope this helped someone. Good luck to you all!

 

[jlanger]

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/estab...obiome-in-a-new-aquarium-using-live-rock.742/

I just gave this article a quick read through; very informative.
I'm hoping that there's more follow ups that will expand on the other differences between starting with dry rock and live rock; the microfauna and algae.

 

[Adam G]

Wow, what a great article. Thanks for the link sir.

 

[Anchor]

my cures for algae, dinos and cyano has worked in 3 of 4 tanks. the one it is not working in is my AIO 30. weekly dose of Vibrant, skip a day and then 3 days in a row of peroxide. Peroxide dosed at .5 ml per 10 galoons then 1 ml and then .5ml.. then wait 3 days and do it again. Dosing the vibrant as instructed. Zoas close up when I dose the peroxide but open up again in about half an hour. the peroxide came from a recipe I got from reef dudes interview? WIll try and hook up the vid. But I did do screen shots of the recipe I can drop in here if anyone is interested.. I am also lowering the light but not doing a black out. OH I should add, I have an old Magnum 350 to filter out the small stuff.. You could use an RO/DI filter too. like a 1 micron filter and stir things up daily.. they clog fast though. I saw Mr. Voss's tank at BRS. He is the front man there.. Very clear water. He uses one of the mech filters on that tank in front.

Dont know if anything is helpful.. but trying.

 

[KJoFan]

Not much good happening in my glass box still. *sad trombone*

 

[jlanger]

my cures for algae, dinos and cyano has worked in 3 of 4 tanks. the one it is not working in is my AIO 30. weekly dose of Vibrant, skip a day and then 3 days in a row of peroxide. Peroxide dosed at .5 ml per 10 galoons then 1 ml and then .5ml.. then wait 3 days and do it again. Dosing the vibrant as instructed. Zoas close up when I dose the peroxide but open up again in about half an hour. the peroxide came from a recipe I got from reef dudes interview? WIll try and hook up the vid. But I did do screen shots of the recipe I can drop in here if anyone is interested.. I am also lowering the light but not doing a black out. OH I should add, I have an old Magnum 350 to filter out the small stuff.. You could use an RO/DI filter too. like a 1 micron filter and stir things up daily.. they clog fast though. I saw Mr. Voss's tank at BRS. He is the front man there.. Very clear water. He uses one of the mech filters on that tank in front.

Dont know if anything is helpful.. but trying.

You mentioned that your zoanthids puckered up while dosing the hydrogen peroxide. What other corals are in your system?

I dosed H2O2 (2ml/10gal) in my smaller tank that only contained soft corals and only some of the zoanthids closed up for that day.
I've never attempted to use H2O2 in my larger system because I've read that SPS corals (specifically acropora spp.) do not do well with H2O2.

Vossen's a hack!
If I could afford changing out sediment filters daily, I would as well.

 

[Anchor]

You mentioned that your zoanthids puckered up while dosing the hydrogen peroxide. What other corals are in your system?

I dosed H2O2 (2ml/10gal) in my smaller tank that only contained soft corals and only some of the zoanthids closed up for that day.
I've never attempted to use H2O2 in my larger system because I've read that SPS corals (specifically acropora spp.) do not do well with H2O2.

Vossen's a hack!
If I could afford changing out sediment filters daily, I would as well.

I don't have any Acro so I cannot testify to how it reacts.. LPS seem to handle it fine. no receding or puckering at all. I have 4 tanks one has only zoa and mushroom, one is sort of mixed. one is mostly LPS and some gorgonians. There is 1 goniopora that will close down for about half an hour in that tank. The other stuff is hammer and torch that seem unaffected. nor are the rock flower nems. Inverts don't seem to react to it either.

I have previously dipped some zoas in a 50/50 h2o2 and saltwater mix. those are the most effected by the peroxide treatment.. But so far I have no losses..

yeah, Vossens hack.. that is why I resurrected my old magnum.. at least I can rotate with 3 of the filters and re-use. but having the canister sitting around on the floor is cumbersome.. thankfully I am more into utility that beauty so far..

 

[Adam G]

Not much good happening in my glass box still. *sad trombone*

Well what the heck? That is no good. Keeping up with your tank through your build thread and this thread I was thinking you had your issues sorted and things were looking up. Looks like cyano and algae issues from your video. I just came through a Red Cyano bloom and I think I have it under control. Tried Red Slime Remover 2 times and it did not touch it. I know how frustrating it can be.

I went back to bacteria dosing and it took less than a week to knock it back. I would encourage you to try it and see if it helps. I ordered 2 different brands this time just the beginning of last week on the Black Friday bulk reef supply sale. I order a 64 ounce Dr Tim’s Waste Away and 3 bottles of Micronacter7. They were on sale but it was still $100 for all that.

They are both similar products and have Hetrotrophic (no idea of spelling on that) bacteria. I figured I would start with Dr Tim’s. I have a 300g system and so I the instructions say one ML per gallon at full dose but start out with a half dose every 48hrs. So last Wednesday I put in 150ml and turned off my skimmer and UV for 12hrs. No change so Friday I did it again. Things looked a little better so Sunday I hit it again. By this past Tuesday thing we’re looking really clean but I hit it again and my filter socks clogged up over night and were bright red.

Not sure if it would help you or others but wanted to share my results. My tank was looking awesome with no algae and bleach white sand for months and then boom, cyano everywhere. Water changes just made it worse, Red Slime Remover did not touch it. It was so frustrating.

 

[coralreefer]

Not much good happening in my glass box still. *sad trombone*

I feel your pain. Seems like all the adjustments I’ve been doing with nutrients have made my tank much uglier. The couple acro frags I had recently went downhill so that’s sad to see. I will be setting up a UV this week and hopefully can get things steered in the right direction.

 

[KJoFan]

I am nearly through a bottle of Microbacter 7. I can't say I've noticed any difference so far. I have also used the Live Rock Enhance stuff from Reefbrite, again, no noticeable difference in anything.

I dropped in fluconazole today to try to hit the algae. I know it isn't effective for everyone when it comes to this turf like stuff, but it's worth a shot. I also bought Chemiclean, but will hold on that and see how the algae fight goes.

I picked up a bio block along with the Microbacter 7 and installed that in the sump a week or so ago to try to help with what tests as elevated nutrients. But, I really don't know where the increased nutrients would come from, there's been no fish life in there for weeks now, nor any food going in. The cyano would have indicated low nutrients I would have thought, but test kits say otherwise.

Either way, maybe that will help control nutrients eventually. And, we'll see how the fluco treatment goes on the algae. Getting hard to know what even to try anymore. I've let it ride as is for a few weeks with only an increase in algae and cyano, so that doesn't seem to be the answer either.

Skimmer is now off (per fluco directions) as well as UV, mostly because my pump has a rattle that is annoying and I don't see an advantage/disadvantage to running it currently.

About seven months ago I did the Dr. Tim's Re-fresh and Waste Away protocol which did clear up the cyano and dinos at the time along with a blackout, but i haven't tried those products again as obviously the results didn't last long term, at least for me.

 

[Anchor]

I am nearly through a bottle of Microbacter 7. I can't say I've noticed any difference so far. I have also used the Live Rock Enhance stuff from Reefbrite, again, no noticeable difference in anything.


Skimmer is now off (per fluco directions) as well as UV, mostly because my pump has a rattle that is annoying and I don't see an advantage/disadvantage to running it currently.

About seven months ago I did the Dr. Tim's Re-fresh and Waste Away protocol which did clear up the cyano and dinos at the time along with a blackout, but i haven't tried those products again as obviously the results didn't last long term, at least for me.

Have you tried leaving the UV on and blowing the dino/cyano around with a baster? I did not have a UV but doing that daily for about a week eliminated it.. I also have a Magnum with the Micron filter on it that I changed out every other day. It worked. ,has not returned without any other adjustments or chemicals. You might use a micron filter with an RODI filter can and pump to do the same thing.. you should not have to change out the filter if using a 1 micron unless it gets clogged.. should be small enough pore size to keep what it catches from returning to the tank. Just a thought, correct or not..