Why! Oh why, is my cycle taking so long?!! (1 Viewer)

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I suppose I don't need answers or a "fix" here. Just venting, I guess. But I have been waiting on my cycle to get going for a week and... Nothing. I've got an Ammonia Alert in the tank, I've added bottles ammonia chloride and two, yes two, bottled bacteria suites. Nothing! The ammonia sits at the level where it was, day one. I've had luck with this method for FW. But then again, I was also confident that spores from the lake across the street would eventually make it into a tank of mine and take care of the issue in short order as well. But for SW?! I mean, this is about as far as I have ever lived from an ocean. This is the middle of the middle. Unless the nitrifying bacteria that survive the road salt in the winter somehow make it into my tank, I feel like I need something to jump start this. I am aging as the tank cycles!

 

[Jake]

Dr Tim’s always worked for me

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Dr Tim’s always worked for me

Yup, for me in FW in the past too. That is one of the two bottles of bacteria I added to the tank (the other being Bio S). The specific bottle of Tim's I got though, after being well shaken, still had large chunks that had settled out in it. Maybe it was not the freshest?

It's also possible that because I have to get this thing cycled because there is a looming fish deadline (it's got to be ready on time) I am simply displaying the patience of an over-tired toddler with ADHD who accidentally drank an espresso.

 

[Reefer Oz]

I am not super familiar with bottled bacteria products or the method used. But I am pretty sure even most of those “quick start” products have anticipated results in 10-12 day on the low end. Though you probably should see some movement in testing I would think, 7 days may not register much change.

I know testing kits can have huge errors and lead to false “stalled cycle” diagnoses. Even the range limits on some of them make it impossible to tell minor movements in testable levels. Let alone the human error component.

I feel that no matter the method used to initiate a nitrogen cycle, patience is the best tool. Even if your bottled products were deficient, they probably had some effect. Cycles can take 20-40 days even with bottled products from what I gather. So many variables involved.

Hopefully it will get initiated in time for your livestock! If you haven’t yet, getting some bio media, sand or rock from an established tank may help boost bacteria populations and get things poppin!

 

[paparoof]

Can you get some mature rubble from someone here on the forum?

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I feel that no matter the method used to initiate a nitrogen cycle, patience is the best tool.

I mean... You're not wrong. In all seriousness, I recognize I'm getting a bit impatient here. I've just never had to get a tank of ny kind cycled on a schedule before. Normally, I'm pretty caj about getting a tank going, and I'm not an impulse buyer, so time frames are new to me on this front.

If you haven’t yet, getting some bio media, sand or rock from an established tank may help boost bacteria populations and get things poppin!

Can you get some mature rubble from someone here on the forum?

That's solid advice! And I have someone who has made the offer, which was super kind!

 

[RSnodgrass]

I've cycled alot of tanks & each unassisted step takes ~1 week so 3 weeks total for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite.

Have you tested the others to see where they are at?

Not sure how long you have been waiting or the type of rock/sand you used.

*edit* this could all be resolved by now too

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

*edit* this could all be resolved by now too

Don't worry, it's not!

Not sure how long you have been waiting or the type of rock/sand you used.

Welp, I used CaribSea Arag Alive, and dry marco rock. On top of that, the bottles of Dr. Tim's & Bio S as mentioned.

Have you tested the others to see where they are at?

Sure have! Here are the exact numbers from yesterday:
NH4 - unchanged
NO2 - nada
NO3 - zilch

I've cycled alot of tanks & each unassisted step takes ~1 week

Even that seems expedited at this point!

I'm going to be getting some dark-adapted (dark-held? dark-grown? whatever it's called, it's not from the lit part of the tank), cycled media from the tank of a kind soul. I suspect that will help dramatically!

 

[superman]

I can give you some rock if you need it, it's by FAR the best way to kick start your biological processes!

 

[Mana]

I’m on board so with the others, live rock from an established tank, even some of our macro algae. I know my tank has a nice pod population cause I got my algae from @Coolbobjoe and his has pods in it. I could easily give a handful from my tank.

 

[Coolbobjoe]

big fan of the live bacterias found in Fritz Turbostart, I do not set up tanks with out this anymore, EVER. Smells like a good skimmate though so be aware!

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Thanks everyone for the support and kind offers for slimy rocks!

Fritz Turbostart

That's good to know. Thanks! Probably too cold to order it online right now. I wonder if one of the LFS has it? Or I can get the rock. That might be best anyhow...

 

[Coolbobjoe]

Thanks everyone for the support and kind offers for slimy rocks!


That's good to know. Thanks! Probably too cold to order it online right now. I wonder if one of the LFS has it? Or I can get the rock. That might be best anyhow...

@New Wave Aquaria

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Thanks, @Coolbobjoe ! I've not been out there yet. I'll have to check them out.

The good news is after almost 2 weeks, I finally have some nitrite and the ammonia has decreased. Finally! I feel like I am on the path now. So that's nice.

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Well, last update for this thread from me. It now only takes 5-6hrs to eliminate ammonia when it is added. So, I'm calling that "cycle started". Nitrites of course take longer, but I expect that is all forthcoming at this stage. Given the length of time this took, I am not sure how I feel about the bottled bacteria I got, or the "alive" substrate in terms of speading up the cycling process. But with one tank started, I'll have an infinite supply of nitrifying bacteria for any future tanks I want to start. Thanks to everyone who offered council, comfort, and especially to those who offered cycled media!

 

[Reefer Oz]

Some of us talked about your situation a bit at Ken’s meeting. Todd had a great idea of a club rubble bank for people to dip into to start tanks, refresh systems and add biodiversity.

Of course there are logistical issues, pest problems and any number of reasons why it’s a bad idea. But definitely something to explore I think.

Seems like you are in track now. Hope you make your order deadline!

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Some of us talked about your situation a bit at Ken’s meeting.

That says better things about this community than anything someone could have told me directly. That a group of folks would discuss the trivial problems of a new person (who let's be honest, has been of zero use at this point - and with one post, might even be considered a liability) out of concern for their banal situation is an absolute testament to the kindness, thoughtfulness, and generosity of the people here! I am genuinely humbled that folks bothered to have that conversation. And if you knew me, you'd know, I ain't humble!

a club rubble bank for people to dip into to start tanks

Count me in! I'd be happy to provide what I can moving forward. Certainly, folks were willing to do so for me, and even though I don't need it now, I would be more than happy to provide it for other in the future. It's a great idea, Todd (whoever you may be)!

Hope you make your order deadline!

Thanks! It's not an order for fish. There is someone in my club who is going on vacation for a few weeks, and I'm going to get some of his fish (he's a breeder and always chasing the next challenge). So, I get his banggais and his clowns. That's the deadline I am battling. I said I would take them and I wanted to have a safe, healthy, and cycled tank for them. I know. I know. These are not the most sensitive species, but I still want to do it right. Even with my FW tanks, I often take 3 months to get them "ready" for stock. I'm pretty good with patience. I'm told that will serve me well in SW. But with a "short" deadline of 6 weeks, I was feeling the pressure!

 

[paparoof]

Yo aaay - congrats on seeing the cycle actually happening. I remember my own impatience well.

I've had a beverage or two now so pardon my verbal flatulance... In addition to the bacteria you added, did you also add some mature rock/rubble from someone? Depending on how many gallons / how many fish yer gonna add (presumably all at once?) I might still add the rock if it's reasonably easy to do so. As you've well noticed, bacteria populations take time to develop, they also will only grow to a balance with the available nutrients. Right now you have very limited nutrients - adding a group of fish/food/poop all at once will significantly alter that balance and it'll take time for the bacteria population to bloom enough to balance everything out again. Some fully alive rubble or rock would really be a benefit in reacting to that change when it comes.

BTW - I'm Todd. Welcome to the group!

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I've had a beverage or two now

We are going to get along just fine!

In addition to the bacteria you added, did you also add some mature rock/rubble from someone?

Did not.

As you've well noticed, bacteria populations take time to develop, they also will only grow to a balance with the available nutrients. Right now you have very limited nutrients - adding a group of fish/food/poop all at once will significantly alter that balance and it'll take time for the bacteria population to bloom enough to balance everything out again.

For sure, and your point is well taken. I'll admit though I don't do the fishless cycle as instructed. After doing this a few times, I've got a methods that works for me pretty well (and often a lot faster! ). I don't raise the concentration of ammonia as high, but then once it is dropping, I add more to bring it back up repeatedly and incrementally, to the point where I can raise the ammonia to danger threshold for fish and have it drop back rapidly. If I had dosing pumps, I'd probably do a constant low input for a bit as well.

I've been chastised for "not doing this right before". But, it's funny, Dr. Tim, the man himself, gave a talk to my club like a year ago. He pointed out that even seemingly small changes in pH, salinity, hardness, and to a lesser extent temperature, can entirely change the community of bacterial that are doing the bulk of the nitrification. Okay. Great, everyone is on board. But in the talk he also blithely mentioned that you can't use bacteria or concepts from things like sewage treatment (by the tone, I got the feeling he's had arguments with folks with large scale water treatment backgrounds multiple times in his career) because the bacteria are all highly sensitive to the concentration of substrate (ammonia and nitrite). I asked him about this and how I run things in the Q&A and he sort of dismissed it saying I should follow the instructions on the bottle, but what I am doing should work fine too. From this I took... I guess I can keep going this route.

And if anyone is wondering why I have done this multiple times, it's because if anything is looking sus in a tank, algae I don't want in the new tank, the fish aren't looking as perky as I'd like, I just start from scratch, even though pre-cycled media is like magic! Mostly. The original reason I started new cycles from scratch is that I had had so much luck with it, I once moved media from a blackwater tank running 5.5 pH into a tank that was hardwater and running 8.2 pH. That was less magical. The fish quickly took a hard turn for the worse. I may as well have tossed this into a sparkling new tank. Lesson learned. Sometimes starting over is okay.

Sorry. That got longer than necessary.