Grigor's ATS Version 2 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter David Grigor
- Start date
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T5HO bulbs, just the cheapy 3000K bulbs that you can buy from office stores by the case. Last time I bought 50 and with shipping avg. out to be $2.25 each for 48" bulbs. In this case though I would be running 24" bulbs becuase the 48" were way overkill and by the time I got everything tweeks and running well I was only using 30" width screen so more than a foot of the bulbs were wasted.
If I went back to T5s, I'd build my unit to accomidate the full 24" and make the screen a little shorter. So to redo ATS with T5s I'm looking at a total rebuild. I looked for 18" 18W T5HOs but couldn't find 3000K ones that weren't $15+ each. So I'd go with the 24" 24w onces. Worst case if screen needed to be shorter, not really wasting much space or wattage anyways as the net wattage would still be around 120W.
Had I been smarter and thinking ahead on worst case scenerio and built my ATS to fully accomidate a 24" T5s or the LEDs. My enclosure is 24" wide but I added mounts for a 18" Heatsink. Hindsight spending a few extra bucks and starting with 24" heat sink just so my bracing/mounts would work for both the I could have fit 24" in my existing enclosure without any major changes.
If I went back to T5s, I'd build my unit to accomidate the full 24" and make the screen a little shorter. So to redo ATS with T5s I'm looking at a total rebuild. I looked for 18" 18W T5HOs but couldn't find 3000K ones that weren't $15+ each. So I'd go with the 24" 24w onces. Worst case if screen needed to be shorter, not really wasting much space or wattage anyways as the net wattage would still be around 120W.
Had I been smarter and thinking ahead on worst case scenerio and built my ATS to fully accomidate a 24" T5s or the LEDs. My enclosure is 24" wide but I added mounts for a 18" Heatsink. Hindsight spending a few extra bucks and starting with 24" heat sink just so my bracing/mounts would work for both the I could have fit 24" in my existing enclosure without any major changes.
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The thought is more towards whats in the spectrum of the flourscents that makes the algae grow Vs not grow as nicely under LEDs
I do have LEDs over my planted tank and the plants are alive and well... no sign of the usual traces of algae, but to be fair I do not have Co2 running and overall a little more light is obviously needed to get the same vigorous growth. I will browse the planted tank forums tonight to see what feedback is there
I thought this weeks harvest was looking up? Are you no longer optimistic that the LED's will do the job?
OP
OP
Your right, I still hopeful that it's in the right direction and that 21 Leds @ 18 hours does the trick along with screen getting more mature. To date though, without the larger water changes I'd been in real trouble. Long term, $70+ a month just in salt isn't going to cut it ( and if I stuck with TM Pro it would be over $100 ). Got to at least get the water changes down to 40g a week range ( and my orginal ATS was 40g every 1-2 weeks ) and not the current 80-90g water changes a week.
Just thinking ahead to the next move unless I nail a checkmate soon.
Flow is about as good as it's going to get, I'm well within ( actually above ) the target so now its just about finding the right LED combination or going back to T5s.
If I do find that nitrates are really low again this week but phosphate are still on the high side ( > .05ppm ) then the other thing I want to try is adding nitrate ( I already have the seachem additive ) in hopes that nitrate is the limiting factor to getting the phosphate lower. I want to avoid GFO or even partial dependance on it. I wouldn't really worry about the phosphate even at .05ppm just so long as the cyano went away but it's alive and well in the sump/frag tank and not slowing down any.
Just thinking ahead to the next move unless I nail a checkmate soon.
Flow is about as good as it's going to get, I'm well within ( actually above ) the target so now its just about finding the right LED combination or going back to T5s.
If I do find that nitrates are really low again this week but phosphate are still on the high side ( > .05ppm ) then the other thing I want to try is adding nitrate ( I already have the seachem additive ) in hopes that nitrate is the limiting factor to getting the phosphate lower. I want to avoid GFO or even partial dependance on it. I wouldn't really worry about the phosphate even at .05ppm just so long as the cyano went away but it's alive and well in the sump/frag tank and not slowing down any.
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Is using a skimmer 100% out of the equation?
I picked up a perfect little 18"Lx8"Wx18"T acrylic tank for $10.00 the other day and it is targeted as an ATS. If you were me and knowing what you know now. would you go LED or T5?
I picked up a perfect little 18"Lx8"Wx18"T acrylic tank for $10.00 the other day and it is targeted as an ATS. If you were me and knowing what you know now. would you go LED or T5?
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OP
18" long kinda rules out the T5s unless you okay with them sticking out a little. I've already researched and while they do make 18" T5HOs, the bulbs are on the expensive side and limited options.
For me, part of the justification of the ATS was to be a wash from an electicity usage ( meaning ATS not costing more to run than a skimmer, version #1 though was considerabley more cost to run ), maintenance ( the BK skimmer skimmate stunk god awful and drove the family out every time I cleaned it. Plus not really wanting to have to clean a skimmer cup 2-3 times a week + weekly ATS harvest & cleaning), heating ( from pumping all the cooler air into skimmer ), water change perspective ( the hope that ATS save salt costs from less changes but never would consider no water changes, 40g every too weeks is my goal, skimmer only it was 40g per week ).
I know ATS only will work and have already proved it with version #1, so in my case skimmer is not being considered as part of the solution. That certainly doesn't mean it can't be part of the solution for others if reducing costs is not part of the justification of running an ATS.
For me, part of the justification of the ATS was to be a wash from an electicity usage ( meaning ATS not costing more to run than a skimmer, version #1 though was considerabley more cost to run ), maintenance ( the BK skimmer skimmate stunk god awful and drove the family out every time I cleaned it. Plus not really wanting to have to clean a skimmer cup 2-3 times a week + weekly ATS harvest & cleaning), heating ( from pumping all the cooler air into skimmer ), water change perspective ( the hope that ATS save salt costs from less changes but never would consider no water changes, 40g every too weeks is my goal, skimmer only it was 40g per week ).
I know ATS only will work and have already proved it with version #1, so in my case skimmer is not being considered as part of the solution. That certainly doesn't mean it can't be part of the solution for others if reducing costs is not part of the justification of running an ATS.
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yeah found a couple 20's but no go on the 18" version. It is a ways off for me anyhow I have a ton to do before I worry about building one but since you were on the subject I thought I would ask your opinion.
Thanks
Thanks
OP
OP
If your okay with running both skimmer and ATS, you can alwasy go smaller on the ATS since your not as dependant. Nothing says you have to use the whole 18" for an ATS with both since the skimmer does compete and will take some load away from the ATS. Only tricky thing is there is no real good forumula for sizing when running both skimmer and an ATS.
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I have an theory on the ATS I want to play with, not going to go into it because it's one of those things I would rather just do and monkey with myself. So for me it's just going to be an experiment. But I remember where algae grew best in my old 125 and I ran a skimmer on it as well.
I want to see if I can duplicate that in a controlled environment. The idea came to me on my garden tractor lol so I have to do it.
As far as sizing, if you're taking stuff out of your tank whether via a skimmer or growing algae you're doing a good thing. But the skimmer is sized for the bio load. Although I bought is about 7-8 years ago so how efficient it is remains to be seen. it's an old MRC beckett style I think a MRC 4 but I do not remember. You know what the say.. "The memory is the second thing to go" but I can't remember what the first thing is..
I'm curious what the theory is; because right now I have macro algae and algae growing before the skimmer, after the skimmer the ATS is growing algae and after the ATS there is more hair algae... at this rate I will be shaving my hair to go with the algae removal :doh:; the important point here is not where the skimmer is located... its the why its in the setup, it is because the ATS did not do what was expected.
No plans to do anything more with ATS at the moment. I will wait to see how DG's upgrade goes... if it works I already have the LEDs.. I will repurpose them and other things can wait. If not I'm armed and ready with ballast/reflector just need the T5 Bulbs. I was planning on building a larger box but that is also on hold until DG's next report
No plans to do anything more with ATS at the moment. I will wait to see how DG's upgrade goes... if it works I already have the LEDs.. I will repurpose them and other things can wait. If not I'm armed and ready with ballast/reflector just need the T5 Bulbs. I was planning on building a larger box but that is also on hold until DG's next report
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OP
OP
Well, 18 hours seems to be too much for my config. Areas with the red seem fine but there are circle areas right in front of each of the blues was bald spots. So pretty obvious 18hours of blue was too much.
Algae Harvest: 1 1/3 cups ( down from just shy of 2 cups last week at 16 hours).
Nitrates: Same. .2 -.5ppm
Phosphate: Slightly up from .058 to .076ppm
Tweaks for this week:
Will go back down to 16 hours.
Also noticed I need to redo my plumbing. I hadn't realized but weeks back when I increased the flow the ATS is no longer in equilibrium with the water level in the sump. It's riding about 2 inches higher. Currently the ATS is two 1" drains T to a 1.5". Going to redo the plumbing so that it's all 1.5" PVC in hopes of getting it more in equilibrium. If it works that will be 36 more square inches of screen above water level. While the below water level does grow aglae, you can see that it is slightly reduced. Maybe will help get a slightly better yield.
Algae Harvest: 1 1/3 cups ( down from just shy of 2 cups last week at 16 hours).
Nitrates: Same. .2 -.5ppm
Phosphate: Slightly up from .058 to .076ppm
Tweaks for this week:
Will go back down to 16 hours.
Also noticed I need to redo my plumbing. I hadn't realized but weeks back when I increased the flow the ATS is no longer in equilibrium with the water level in the sump. It's riding about 2 inches higher. Currently the ATS is two 1" drains T to a 1.5". Going to redo the plumbing so that it's all 1.5" PVC in hopes of getting it more in equilibrium. If it works that will be 36 more square inches of screen above water level. While the below water level does grow aglae, you can see that it is slightly reduced. Maybe will help get a slightly better yield.
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OP
OP
Finished the plumbing tweaks. Water level in ATS is now virtually the same as the sump. That gained about 2" of screen above water level so approx 36 square inches worth. Hopefully that will increase algae yields.
Becuase the screen is showing signs of burning middle mostly around the blue leds @ 18hours, I'm holding off adding more LEDs. Will just let it ride a few weeks at the 16 hour light cycle to see what the algae growth as the screen matures a bit more. Best ever yield was a few weeks ago at 2 cups. Untimately , If water parameters are able to maintain or reduce nitrate/phosphate likely just leave as is. Thus far though the jury is still out as I have needed to increase water changes to keep up with the rising levels of phosphate. If phosphate levels start to rise but not nitrate, instead of using water changes to reduce again, I do have some seachem nitrate that I will start playing with to see if it can reduce phosphate with accumulating more nitrate ( assuption being it might be nitrate limited ).
Becuase the screen is showing signs of burning middle mostly around the blue leds @ 18hours, I'm holding off adding more LEDs. Will just let it ride a few weeks at the 16 hour light cycle to see what the algae growth as the screen matures a bit more. Best ever yield was a few weeks ago at 2 cups. Untimately , If water parameters are able to maintain or reduce nitrate/phosphate likely just leave as is. Thus far though the jury is still out as I have needed to increase water changes to keep up with the rising levels of phosphate. If phosphate levels start to rise but not nitrate, instead of using water changes to reduce again, I do have some seachem nitrate that I will start playing with to see if it can reduce phosphate with accumulating more nitrate ( assuption being it might be nitrate limited ).
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OP
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I'm going to run this way for a few more weeks. Currently the blues are on the same ballast as the red and will add more cost to seperate them. If I do add more LEDs I'll be sure to seperate them out since I'm at the max of the ballast anyways.
Still using Tropic Marin?
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Yes until I get the ATS config all settled. Will need to buy at least 1 more TM bucket to get me through November.
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Update: Sunday maintenance consisted of 40g water change, clean glass, siphon substrate, completely drain clean the frag/sump tank.
Cyano is really taking over the frag/sump. Only a very little in the show tank towards the end of the week on the substrate just before weekly maintenance. Otherwise, show tank looks fine, no hair algae of anykind. Corals seem fine.
This weeks levels, phosphates continue to rise. .153ppm ( Highest it has ever been since testing ). Nitrates continue to read somewhere around .2-.5ppm with the Salifert kit.
Screen: Looks terrible. Slime only. I can tell the harvest would be less than normal. I have decided to let it go for 10days and see what it looks like.
Cyano is really taking over the frag/sump. Only a very little in the show tank towards the end of the week on the substrate just before weekly maintenance. Otherwise, show tank looks fine, no hair algae of anykind. Corals seem fine.
This weeks levels, phosphates continue to rise. .153ppm ( Highest it has ever been since testing ). Nitrates continue to read somewhere around .2-.5ppm with the Salifert kit.
Screen: Looks terrible. Slime only. I can tell the harvest would be less than normal. I have decided to let it go for 10days and see what it looks like.
My biopellet reactor gets delivered today... :lookaround:
David, at 400 ma and 18 hour days and with the flow you saw and cleaning every 10 days, I am starting to get a lot more stringy algae and more density to the harvest. I also started cleaning one side at a time, each of them after 10 days. I cleaned one side last night after 10 days and I got about the same amount I was getting off of both sides after 8 days....
Is this the magic exilir? I don't know, but it has only 10 days to prove that it is...if I give it that long.
I think I have it tuned to the point that it will work as well as it is going to work. I think my issue in the end will be that my screen size is limited and I am unable to increase it. So, I will try to give it another 10 days and see what happens. In the mean time, I may put some SW in a pail and turn on this biopellet reactor in order to get a head start on 'seeding' the pellets.
I tried convincing the neighbor to put this ats on his 90G, figured it would knock that right out, but he was hesitant. I am sure my complaining about how it is 'not working well enough' for me has spooked him. He's not that well versed in aquarium chemistry/biology and doesn't seem to accept that my problem is in the sizing of it. Oh well, I tried to help a guy out, to storage it will go if it doesn't wow me over the next 10 days.
David, at 400 ma and 18 hour days and with the flow you saw and cleaning every 10 days, I am starting to get a lot more stringy algae and more density to the harvest. I also started cleaning one side at a time, each of them after 10 days. I cleaned one side last night after 10 days and I got about the same amount I was getting off of both sides after 8 days....
Is this the magic exilir? I don't know, but it has only 10 days to prove that it is...if I give it that long.
I think I have it tuned to the point that it will work as well as it is going to work. I think my issue in the end will be that my screen size is limited and I am unable to increase it. So, I will try to give it another 10 days and see what happens. In the mean time, I may put some SW in a pail and turn on this biopellet reactor in order to get a head start on 'seeding' the pellets.
I tried convincing the neighbor to put this ats on his 90G, figured it would knock that right out, but he was hesitant. I am sure my complaining about how it is 'not working well enough' for me has spooked him. He's not that well versed in aquarium chemistry/biology and doesn't seem to accept that my problem is in the sizing of it. Oh well, I tried to help a guy out, to storage it will go if it doesn't wow me over the next 10 days.
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So for clarrification, 10 days at a time for each side. Clean only one side at a time. So essentially, rotating cleaning one side every 5 days ? I can certainly try that.
I'm getting to the point where if things aren't better by Thanksgiving Holiday then I'm going to convert back to T5s. Water changes alone to supplement the is costing me over $100 a month and don't plan to sustain that indefinately.
I'm getting to the point where if things aren't better by Thanksgiving Holiday then I'm going to convert back to T5s. Water changes alone to supplement the is costing me over $100 a month and don't plan to sustain that indefinately.
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