News from your BOD (1 Viewer)

[joshua.jebe]

As a current newb, I can tell you that I came to this forum as a freshwater guy, wondering what it took to be a saltwater guy and how much it would cost (the curse of being an accountant). I read all the articles, some good posts, got excited by what kind of livestock and corals I could eventually have. I learned a lot about this hobby just from the classifieds section. But if at that point, someone would have told me I had to pay to see them or attend some meetings before I even had a tank yet, I would have said forget that. At that point I wasn't even vested yet. I actually got all the stuff I needed to start my 30g off the classifieds, and I know some of the members benefited from it. After running my 30g for a while I was hooked and posted in the classifieds section that I was looking for a 180g tank. I was contacted by a BOD who helped me and my tank is on order.

I realize and agree that the members should have all the say and I respect that, but the point of this post is to say that I'm one guy that benefited from having an open classifieds section. I think it’s a little harsh to call me a freeloader just because I wasn't vested in the hobby yet and I was doing my due diligence.

Also, not all us “freeloaders” on the fringe are lazy, too cheap or whatever adjective you like. Between traveling for my job, my kids, my kids’ activities, church, hunting, fishing, soccer, basketball, and my wife’s two jobs I have a lot going on. I’m not saying you should cater to me and I’m not playing my violin, but I am defending saltwater hobbyists like me who are trying to juggle other responsibilities and hobbies. IMO if only 1 out of every 10 people that join the forum for the classifies becomes an active member, that's better than none!

this is the same way i was feeling when i read this as well.

and not all of us have a LFS in our areas . and some of there prices wouls scare an entry level noob. i see allot of people defending the position of the bod when the members actually made the decision but the harshness by some of you with your comments is childish.

some are just trying to get there feelings understood and arent conveying them well while others trample on them.

the active membership has the ball in there court it is up to us to participate or watch and see what they do with it and what becomes of the forum as time passes.

{ just a thought }
with everyone being in such far places ( big city and all) has anyone considered chapters? as it might help with bonding more people together in a smaller group of hobbyists. would encourage the club aspect more amongst each group and then the chapters could take turns hosting to defray costs a little as the club grows.

:biggrin:the iowa club down here i joined is doing that and it seems to be working quite well as we are developing groups of people that are 2hrs away from each other but 30 to 90 people in each group are meeting regularly:beerchug:

i will keep reading articles people post on here and ask questions if needed. hopefully things get ironed out and nobody decides to close expos to members only either.

{ just for someting to chew on}
the last thing i bought off the classifieds turned int a friendship and a 7 hr conversation about the hobby and trials and errors the day i picked up my new tank. its always nice to talk to someone on the phone and then meet in person and be assured if i have an emergency i can call and ask questions:violin:

northside reef i like your aspect and angle to this as well, but 80% of people just starting out are not going to be able to give back right away except thru participation at events, most will be at the hard end of the learning curve of the hobby or be vested in fresh water and making the jump to the darkside. hopefully everything works out in the end.

it was just easier for me to make friends thru the forum classifieds then comming to a expo.

and speaking of that will there be an option for a avability/classifieds post for members to display goods to potential non members prior to the expo? or will all non members be forbidden from seeing what is for sale till they show up?

 

[Fisherman7]

First of all, I have taken nothing I haven't paid for. I haven't gotten anything for free. That said, someone paid for this website and as far as I'm concerned they can do whatever they want with it and I wouldn't have the right to complain.

Second, I haven't been in this hobby long enough to have the opportunity to give back, which I will once I have something of value to give. FIF is a great program and I applaud this forum for actively encouraging it.

Third, I'm not complaining about the new rules. I look at it like Sam's Club or Costco. You pay for the right to buy cheaper stuff. I'm simply trying to persuade for my point.

However, I do have some business experience and this is the point of my post. The more traffic you get through your forum, the more you expose to your club and to your sales (you're hurting the seller, not the buyer cause the buyer won't know any different). Who do you think is buying all the old equipment that none of the veterans want because they already have big tanks. Leaving the classifieds open is an investment for the club to try and recruit new members. If its not an open and friendly environment, you're not going to get new members.

If a new person is looking to get into this hobby, yeah this website has great information, but they need cheap equipment. This website doesn't have anything unique to all the other saltwater forums out there except the local classifieds. I don't need this TCMAS to learn about reef keeping because I could go to any other site to ask questions, read articles and so on, which I've done on occasion. The point of the forum is to interact with local people and as the post above this said, a lot of that happens through the classifieds.

The way I see it, people aquire a tank and knowledge from the great people of this forum, then someday contribute back because of how they were treated.

 

[kheebl]

First of all, I have taken nothing I haven't paid for. I haven't gotten anything for free. That said, someone paid for this website and as far as I'm concerned they can do whatever they want with it and I wouldn't have the right to complain.

Second, I haven't been in this hobby long enough to have the opportunity to give back, which I will once I have something of value to give. FIF is a great program and I applaud this forum for actively encouraging it.

Third, I'm not complaining about the new rules. I look at it like Sam's Club or Costco. You pay for the right to buy cheaper stuff. I'm simply trying to persuade for my point.

However, I do have some business experience and this is the point of my post. The more traffic you get through your forum, the more you expose to your club and to your sales (you're hurting the seller, not the buyer cause the buyer won't know any different). Who do you think is buying all the old equipment that none of the veterans want because they already have big tanks. Leaving the classifieds open is an investment for the club to try and recruit new members. If its not an open and friendly environment, you're not going to get new members.

If a new person is looking to get into this hobby, yeah this website has great information, but they need cheap equipment. This website doesn't have anything unique to all the other saltwater forums out there except the local classifieds. I don't need this TCMAS to learn about reef keeping because I could go to any other site to ask questions, read articles and so on, which I've done on occasion. The point of the forum is to interact with local people and as the post above this said, a lot of that happens through the classifieds.

The way I see it, people aquire a tank and knowledge from the great people of this forum, then someday contribute back because of how they were treated.

Well said. I myself have bought both of my tanks from members here and without them I would never gotten into the hobby. There is no way I would have gone to the lfs and bought everything brand new just to see if I liked the hobby. You have to think about it that way.

 

[NorthSide Reef]

However, I do have some business experience and this is the point of my post. The more traffic you get through your forum, the more you expose to your club and to your sales (you're hurting the seller, not the buyer cause the buyer won't know any different). Who do you think is buying all the old equipment that none of the veterans want because they already have big tanks. Leaving the classifieds open is an investment for the club to try and recruit new members. If its not an open and friendly environment, you're not going to get new members.

I still think you and others are still missing the point that has been made several times and I pointed out in the post you are responding to.

I think some folks need to quit looking at the "membership drive" aspect of this decision and understand it's a participation drive.

If you can't go to a meeting you can have a meeting, if you can't go to a meeting, or have a meeting, you can donate.

All cases that do not require a mature tank full of frags to give away. Just your participation.

 

[farnzi]

I see all of these changes as good things and applaud everyone involved.

 

[RWellvang]

Wow this has caused a stir. I for one like the changes, 30$ for a year is not much most of us pay for a small piece of coral or a fish both of which may die on us. I think that being an active member here allows us access to others thoughts and insights allowing us a better chance to have that coral or fish thrive. Also I have used the classifieds both in selling and buying and think that alone is worth the fee. Closing the classified might limit the eyes that see it but pre-qualifies the eyes that do see it.


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[ironman]

YES actually I can and plan to do so in April!!!!!


However due to the really low turnout for the speaker events (last was about 40) - I am not currently seeking speakers for any future speaker events

Considering our speaker events take easily more than half out budget - I think the money would be better spent going forward for our members in prizes, give-always and workshops

AAANNND you just made a compelling argument AGAINST the giveaways, and prizes, while nice, they do nothing to benefit the club as a whole, and come at the hefty cost of eliminating speakers (how do you have a speakers even without speakers anyway?) who have a lot of knowledge to share. I really wasn't against the giveaways and prizes before this post, just confused as to how we would fund them, now I know. This and the shutting down of the open classifieds are in direct violation of our very own mission statement. It's really sad. :frown:

At any rate, this is madness, we REALLY should have a thread stickied and dedicated to upcoming business meetings and the topics being discussed and voted on in these meetings. I think you would see a much bigger turn out for meetings where hot button topics are slated to be voted on, and much more discussion on the pros and cons of each topic before people showed up and knee jerk vote for what sounds good before really thinking about the ramifications of such a vote. Instead, we have this newest onslaught of poorly thought out (but GREAT sounding) ideas being brought to fruition.

 

[hypertech]

I played a large part in writing that mission statement too and absolutely no part of it requires there to be a classifieds at all. Whether having a classifieds is consistent with the mission is entirely different than saying it is violated by not having one. Your argument is just so far off base it's hard to take seriously.

 

[David Grigor]

I tell you what. If 5 people ( no wait make that 3 people, no how about just 1 person ) who paid $30 shows up at the next business meeting, I would make the motion myself to amend the bi-laws that they have voting rights for all future business. Probably the only reason why they don't as part of these changes outlined in this thread is becuase BOD can't make changes to the bi-laws until the next business meeting because they are bound to follow the bi-laws.

The last business meeting, If I'm not mistaken, outside of those that were on the BOD or about to be voted in, there were less than 5 other participates ( I'm thinking it was around 3 people ).

So based on the past meeting, odds are this is all a mute point anyways because they probably wouldn't show up even if they did have rights. Trust me, I would love to be proven otherwise as I'm all about participation at business meetings and all TCMAS functions.

I do still feel strongly though that absentee voting should be only to those who are lifetime members as they have "Earned" that right and not just bought that right via dues.

 

[zwalk1839]

AAANNND you just made a compelling argument AGAINST the giveaways, and prizes, while nice, they do nothing to benefit the club as a whole, and come at the hefty cost of eliminating speakers (how do you have a speakers even without speakers anyway?) who have a lot of knowledge to share. I really wasn't against the giveaways and prizes before this post, just confused as to how we would fund them, now I know. This and the shutting down of the open classifieds are in direct violation of our very own mission statement. It's really sad. :frown:

At any rate, this is madness, we REALLY should have a thread stickied and dedicated to upcoming business meetings and the topics being discussed and voted on in these meetings. I think you would see a much bigger turn out for meetings where hot button topics are slated to be voted on, and much more discussion on the pros and cons of each topic before people showed up and knee jerk vote for what sounds good before really thinking about the ramifications of such a vote. Instead, we have this newest onslaught of poorly thought out (but GREAT sounding) ideas being brought to fruition.

look man i have agreed with a lot of the things you have said in this thread but i think angie might be telling us that in order to expand the benefits of this club ie give-aways and such we need to sacrifice other things that may only benefit a small portion of the club. well to me that says that maybe we all need to band together and figure out how to do it all! ive never been to a speaker and i have been looking forward to going to one. how about not crying over such a trivial thing here and donate some cash anyways. $30 is a small fee for just the forum and frag swaps alone not to mention all the rest of the benefits this club offers. we need speakers and give-aways and whatever other good stuff the bod likes to offer club members. i had similar thoughts about this topic when i first read about it but i have realized that nothing will get done in this thread so we need to embrace these changes and try even harder to make this club the best dang reef club in the world!!!

 

[ironman]

I played a large part in writing that mission statement too and absolutely no part of it requires there to be a classifieds at all. Whether having a classifieds is consistent with the mission is entirely different than saying it is violated by not having one. Your argument is just so far off base it's hard to take seriously.

I am not saying it says there must be classifieds, however, like it or not, the classifieds DO play a role in the education of good husbandry skills for fellow reefers, I have been on both the recievingm, and giving end of that, I know from first hand experiance that it does happen, and I'm not alone, otheris in this very thread have brought up the same point. Because this reduces the amount of education newbies are exposed to, closing the classifieds to "memebers only" violates the two statements I put in bold font

"The Twin Cities Marine Aquarium Society promotes fellowship and support among saltwater aquarists of all experience levelsWe believe in conservation of coral reefs and encourage responsible husbandry, breeding and propagation among members. Through the exchange of knowledge and experiences we help each other become better, more responsible and successful enthusiasts.
We are a non-profit organization committed to promoting conservation and awareness in the saltwater hobby."

That is my main issue with closing the classifieds, the lesser of reasons is that we have effectively reduced the amount of people seeing our FS,FT,FIF,and WTB, this reduces the chance that we will be able to sell, trade, frag it forward, or find items we need, and reduces the chance of newbies getting items they need at prices they can afford. This literally helps nobody.

look man i have agreed with a lot of the things you have said in this thread but i think angie might be telling us that in order to expand the benefits of this club ie give-aways and such we need to sacrifice other things that may only benefit a small portion of the club. well to me that says that maybe we all need to band together and figure out how to do it all! ive never been to a speaker and i have been looking forward to going to one. how about not crying over such a trivial thing here and donate some cash anyways. $30 is a small fee for just the forum and frag swaps alone not to mention all the rest of the benefits this club offers. we need speakers and give-aways and whatever other good stuff the bod likes to offer club members. i had similar thoughts about this topic when i first read about it but i have realized that nothing will get done in this thread so we need to embrace these changes and try even harder to make this club the best dang reef club in the world!!!

That is why I am now, thanks to Angie, against the prizes and giveaways. Are we seriously going to eliminate something that is educational and one of the many great things about this club for the chance at getting free stuff? This only cheapens the club, if anything, put that money towards workshops and something like a "scholarship" for young reefers, they are the ones being hit the hardest by job loss, which means their livestock stands a good chance of suffering more. These are not trivial issues, they are huge because they impact the club and it's members in a negative way. I never once complained about the membership charges, I said several times that I think they are a good idea, what I don't think is a good idea, is not allowing people to vote when they were willing to pay money for a membership. If you don't like the idea of them being allowed to vote, how about not offering them a paid membership, fair is fair.

 

[thou]

Plain and simple guys, this was a BUSSINESS descision and nothing more.


"Crap here comes another red rep point!" :brick:

 

[MAXreefer]

what I don't think is a good idea, is not allowing people to vote when they were willing to pay money for a membership. If you don't like the idea of them being allowed to vote, how about not offering them a paid membership, fair is fair.

Most of the questions have been answered already but I still need to point out the following:

The BOD can not overrule the Bylaws and give voting rights to "TCMAS Supporters". If you want this then the members will have to vote on it at a Business Meeting.

We just could have implemented what was decided in the past and close up the Classifieds and be done with it. We went the extra step and opened an extra door to get access to the benefits members have including the classifieds.

We are open to any other changes you might come up with but they need to be handled and voted on at the Business Meeting if they require a change in the bylaws

 

[Reefer Sutherland]

I've read most of this thread but I dont feel like reading the last 6 pages... lol !

Whatever happens, happens.

It is what it is.


The TCMAS board and staff is so awesome. Their doing the dirty work, on their own time, for not a dime. So what you have to post a little more to be accepted into the classifieds - Get Involved make some discussion. Sorry you have to a drive a couple hours to meetings - Take the family to MOA for the day, and ditch em for a meeting for a couple hours, sorry you dont live closer to the hustle-n-bustle.

TCMAS has been such a great resource over the year+ i've been here. Met great people, made some friends, had great fun.

There really is not relevance to this thread here... but I am grateful, so just wanted to say thanks!

:rotflmao:

 

[MAXreefer]

we REALLY should have a thread stickied and dedicated to upcoming business meetings and the topics being discussed and voted on in these meetings.

A thread regarding the Business Meeting will be opened any time soon.
This will also include the upcoming elections and nominations for the following positions: President, Treasurer and one Director.

 

[acharpenter]

AAANNND you just made a compelling argument AGAINST the giveaways, and prizes, while nice, they do nothing to benefit the club as a whole, and come at the hefty cost of eliminating speakers (how do you have a speakers even without speakers anyway?) who have a lot of knowledge to share. I really wasn't against the giveaways and prizes before this post, just confused as to how we would fund them, now I know. This and the shutting down of the open classifieds are in direct violation of our very own mission statement. It's really sad. :frown:



That is why I am now, thanks to Angie, against the prizes and giveaways. Are we seriously going to eliminate something that is educational and one of the many great things about this club for the chance at getting free stuff? .

Sucks doesn't it? The speakers event is my baby and I am more sad to see it go than anyone - but I cannot justify spending half our yearly budget for one event a year that pulls in maybe 40 members - IF we are lucky.

The money will go towards funding the upcoming educational workshops (which will be beneficial and educational hands on experiences I think members will appreciate and attend), prizes and give aways - ALL things I am confident more members will want to participate in

We can revisit the speaker events at a future date if there is enough interest to support the expense of doing it.

Sadly - I know it is some of our most dedicated reefers that are going to lose out in this decision (you included Jesse) but the cost outweighs the benefits for the club as a whole at this time.

A thread regarding the Business Meeting will be opened any time soon.
This will also include the upcoming elections and nominations for the following positions: President, Treasurer and one Director.

I would like to note - my position as Treasurer will be up for election. While I will continue to do it if no one steps up to run - I really want to encourage members to run for it. I have streamlined the duties and created a VERY easy ongoing budget so anyone can step into this position with no issues and I will always be available to help

 

[a1t2o]

Is there any way that we could keep the "want to buy" section open when the other classifieds are closed. That would be a good compromise. Then people who are looking to get equipment and advice will recieve more attention and the seller can have the disgression of selling to that person and for how much. I feel that this would maintain the integrity that the BOD is aiming for while still allowing newcomers to experience how friendly we can be. Like many people, I probably would not still be in this hobby if it weren't for the ability to buy equipment used rather than going to the store and buying new. So, is there any way we can tweek the rules to achieve a better result that more closely matches the intent of the change?

 

[BashfulBacterium]

I am not saying it says there must be classifieds

This and the shutting down of the open classifieds are in direct violation of our very own mission statement. It's really sad.

Can people please just let this go? This is a club for similar interests, not a swap n'shop. No one on either side is going to change their mind at this point.

 

[a1t2o]

well lets see shall we?

Please stop with the negative remarks, it does not help your point. This is meant to be a sharing of opinions and a chance to debate the topic where those who will vote can see, not a place to bash others. This goes for both sides and I apologize if I came off strongly with my opinions earlier.

 

[acharpenter]

Is there any way that we could keep the "want to buy" section open when the other classifieds are closed.

That would be completely circumventing the entire "closed classifieds issue" at hand