3 Foot Nano Tank (1 Viewer)

[eschulist]

[FONT=&amp]The chaos continues!![/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]First on the list was to do the exterior black plumbing after I tested it with the crappy white pvc.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]It was kind of a tricky beast as the bulkhead first had to be tightened to the glass. Then the threaded fittings needed teflon paste applied and they were tightened (The final angle didnt matter as long as they were tight) The bulkheads were then loosened to rotate the fitting into place. Once vertical the bulkhead was tightened back up. The black pipe was all bent to the same 90 curve with excess on all ends. After figuring out the best height there were all cut to length and glued into place. Now the tank better not leak as these steps can't be reversed in order.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]Made sure to remember to include the union nut on the pipe.

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[FONT=&amp]Next on the list was the internal plumbing. The return line and reactor plumbing was pretty easy. Just a lot of fittings stacked on top of one another. The only critical part was getting the total height correct so that it met the return line union. The drains were the worst part so they were left until last. These bends had to be more precise and they required exact height and length to match both unions at the same time.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]So I start to put it all together and.... #@&%!! This is with me even putting a lot of pressure on the pipe to even get it this close.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]Luckily the pipe could actually be extended by increasing the radius of the bend while keeping the height and length of the assembly the same. A 3" arc turned into a 5" arc. Success!![/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]I was getting really close to putting every single piece together but caused too much noise after 10pm and the wife got a little pissed. So the build will continue in the morning.[/FONT]
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[Fishfoo]

Everything's coming together nicely. Some of the plumbing ideas you and others come up with are very interesting and impressive!

 

[eschulist]

Fully assembled.

Today I also worked on an electronics board. Then I realized its right below the unions and probably the worst place to have a power strip..... So options include making a small "roof" on top of the board to shield against any possible drips. Or mount everything to the back wall and show all the cords. I can get some tiny raceways or cable ties but its not quite the same.

If I decide to go with this placement the final board will either be painted black or recreated using walnut to match the stand.

 

[Jonty]

Impressive well done

 

[acharpenter]

Friggen over achievers!

Yes, I am jealous - and yeah, thats pretty awesome!

 

[eschulist]

Impressive well done

Thanks Jon. Saying youre impressed means a lot coming from someone of your ability and current tank.

Friggen over achievers!

Yes, I am jealous - and yeah, thats pretty awesome!

Over achievers??! Who are these others you speak of? And I would say no one is over doing anything

 

[Fishfoo]

If you're keeping it where it is, I think the roof is your best bet. Could maybe even have it slanted to have the water drop back into the sump, should a leak occur? Love the time lapse photo btw.

 

[csb123]

To bend the PVC did you put the springs on the inside of the pipe? Where did you find the springs?

 

[eschulist]

To bend the PVC did you put the springs on the inside of the pipe? Where did you find the springs?

Yep at the top of the post 501 you can see my heat gun box, the gold spring, and my winter gloves I used to hold the pipe while it got hot.

The spring goes inside the pipe to prevent it from collapsing. Once inserted just continuously rotate the pipe and move the heat gun side to side to heat up the section you wish to bend. The pvc and metal spring eventually gets hot enough that is flexes with ease. Hold the bend or curve you wish to have. In my case I used a 2x4 jig to make sure I had exactly 90 degrees and included a metal can to get the same size curve for multiple pipes. I did this in the garage which was pretty cold. After a few minutes it would harden and you can then pull the spring out.

I bought the springs off Amazon. They are fairly expensive brand new. The 1" version I found used. I may rent the springs and heat gun out to the club to recoup some of the cost or sell them back on Amazon.

 

[acharpenter]

Yep at the top of the post 501 you can see my heat gun box, the gold spring, and my winter gloves I used to hold the pipe while it got hot.

Post link here: http://www.tcmas.org/v4/forums/show...no-Office-Tank&p=666096&viewfull=1#post666096

I bought the springs off Amazon. They are fairly expensive brand new. The 1" version I found used. I may rent the springs and heat gun out to the club to recoup some of the cost or sell them back on Amazon.

I will probably be the first to rent them from you (or the last based on the history of my long builds lol)- I am in the works of duplicating my current set up with upgrades - which include my plumbing not having elbows etc.

Ill be reaching out to you when time comes due for this piece sir!

 

[eschulist]

I will probably be the first to rent them from you (or the last based on the history of my long builds lol)- I am in the works of duplicating my current set up with upgrades - which include my plumbing not having elbows etc.
Ill be reaching out to you when time comes due for this piece sir!

No problem Angie you can use the 1" and 1/2" springs and heat gun. I did not buy the 3/4" or other sizes if thats something you need.

 

[Leicester56]

I can only dream of such an aesthetically pleasing sump area! Love that the plumping colors were chosen to match the Apex!

 

[eschulist]

[FONT=&amp]New plumbing fixed... in the noise department. It a little crazy and dangerous so please read along and copy at your own risk. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]For a benchmark here is the duo durso setup. Now this is very similar to my current tank so I have no idea why the noise is 20X louder than at work. If I had this tank at work I would seriously piss a lot of people off and it would drive me insane just as fast. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]I tried altering the down spouts and amount of flow coming from the pump. This setup used slotted spouts to help release air bubbles and I had the pump dialed back to 60-70%.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp][youtube]4OQ1TlRIpjY[/youtube][/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Tons of noise and overall, unusable in my eyes. So a change needed to happen using what I already had. I decided to turn it into a Herbie with a few customizations. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Due to both drains being at the same height and drawing water equally into the bulkhead I hard to start with the strainers. I needed one to draw from the bottom to be used for the siphon side and the other needed to have just the top open to take in the trickle.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]The first attempt at using moldable plastics didn't go so well.[/FONT]

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[FONT=&amp]The next attempts used tape on the backside and very slowly filling one row at a time until it was completely filled and then reheating the entire bulkhead again in hot water to smooth it out as best as possible.[/FONT]

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[FONT=&amp]Siphon Side[/FONT]

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[FONT=&amp]Trickle Side[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]1" valve added to control siphon side. There were also some modifications done to the bulkheads as the enter the sump by making them super short like the ones used on my display tank. This allows for an air gap to happen on a slotted down spout and is easier to make adjustments.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]While adding the valve I had to remember to put TWO union couplings on the tiny pipe that connects the valve to the sump unions. One for the union and one for the valve facing in opposite directions. When gluing the fittings together the I only put on ONE!! Shoooot! To fix this and reclaim my valve union I had to cut the pipe apart, put the fitting underneath a drill press with a 1" bit and drilled out the now crappy piece of pipe. It took a lot of clamps and fine adjustments to make sure I only removed the pipe and didn't compromise the fitting. Once it was cleaned up I redid this section with the union couplings back in place. I created some fancy easter basket plastic orange shredding in the process [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]Here is the Herbie setup installed and running. This video has not been muted as you will be able to hear my wife's cat a few times during the video and proves how quiet the setup now is. Any slight trickle will be muffled even more with the sock cover in place and the doors closed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp][youtube]iXYW3knl2U8[/youtube][/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]There is no emergency in this setup and I understand the risks. I will go the main safeguard I've impliemted already and others I could do in the future. The main is power failure. When the power goes out the water will drain until it hits the siphon drain holes. This causes the tube to be filled with air. When the power is restored this drain can not form a siphon fast enough to prevent the display tank from overflowing. To stop such events from occuring the Apex has a virtual switch created called [/FONT]

POWER_OUTAGE
Set OFF
If Power Apex Off 720 Then ON

[FONT=&amp]The return pump has this code[/FONT]

RETURN_PUMP
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Output POWER_OUTAGE = ON Then OFF
If FeedD 720 Then ON

[FONT=&amp]What this does is when power is off nothing runs like usual. When power comes back on POWER_OUTAGE turns on and stays on for 12 hours. This causes the return pump outlet to also go OFF for 12 hours. In that time I have to manually restart the siphon or turn the pump outlet off manually from Apex Fusion until I can get into work. I will be alerted when the power goes off and comes back and have time to respond. The Feed D option allows me to restart the siphon within the 12 hour window after power failure and not have POWER_OUTAGE override my change for 12 hours.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]A future tank upgrade might be to have an optical sensor at the rim of the tank that will decrease flow or shut off the pump if the water level rises too high during running operation. The trickle drain though has been tested to take on 10-15% more power above the quietest running level. As it climbs higher above the slats on the emergency it causes increased noise and will let me know if I need to make adjustments.[/FONT]

 

[ChristopherKriens]

Huge improvement! How long does it take for the siphon to start? I wonder if Neptune's flow meter on the siphon line paired with a controllable return pump could allow you to recover from a power outage.

 

[eschulist]

Huge improvement! How long does it take for the siphon to start? I wonder if Neptune's flow meter on the siphon line paired with a controllable return pump could allow you to recover from a power outage.

I have't been able to realiably test how long it would take as If I do it without me interferring the tank will overflow the edge. If the COR has a controllable ramp capability I could in theory tell it to ramp up for 2-3 minutes and by the time it was full power the siphon would have already started and purged all the air.

The safest is your idea with having a flow meter on the siphon side and if was only draining 100gph tell the Cor to only ouput 100gph or slightly more to match headloss etc. As the siphon starts and starts sucking down 600-800 gph the pump them ramps up to match. The slight excess would still be taken on by the other drain but in theory that would be really safe. If the drain became clogged and no more flow was detected the pump would slow down or even stop on its own. There would need to be a slight burst in the beginning though. If the drain was at 0gph I wouldnt want the pump to match 0 at the beginning or nothing could start.

 

[cypho]

The safest is your idea with having a flow meter on the siphon side and if was only draining 100gph tell the Cor to only ouput 100gph or slightly more to match headloss etc. As the siphon starts and starts sucking down 600-800 gph the pump them ramps up to match. The slight excess would still be taken on by the other drain but in theory that would be really safe. If the drain became clogged and no more flow was detected the pump would slow down or even stop on its own. There would need to be a slight burst in the beginning though. If the drain was at 0gph I wouldnt want the pump to match 0 at the beginning or nothing could start.

Unless apex's flow sensors prove to be much more reliable than the (identical looking) ones I am using, I do not think this would work. They work great most of the time, but they need to be cleaned frequently or they start reporting 0. The false 0 would cause your sump pump to shut down even though there was not actually anything wrong with the drain.

If you don't want to drill another hole in the tank for a float switch (or don't want to see a float switch in the tank), you could put it on the sump.

If the water level in the sump is low, that water must have gone somewhere. The tank is either too full or there is a leak. Either way you probably want to reduce or shut down the sump pump.

Then tell the apex to do something like this.

If the sump water level is low, reduce the sumppump power by x% every y seconds seconds until you hit 0%, or the sump water level is no longer low.

If the sump water level is not low, increase the power by a% every b seconds until you hit 100%, or the sump water level becomes too low.

 

[eschulist]

Interesting idea. I would like to keep the display tank as clean and free of as much equipment as possible. A sump level sensor for pump control would be doable since I add my RODI based on time rather than sump level. Right now I can't do it with the Jebao but it might be possible with the COR

 

[eschulist]

Going to share something embarrassing that happened hoping that others can learn from my mistake. But it lead to a cool discovery.

My tank drain system is basically a herbie with one drain being a siphon and the next being a trickle. 95% of the water goes down one drain and the other 5% goes down the second. The other drain can handle fluctuations but can not handle the same volume of water that the siphon side can. To prevent overflows due to power outages I created some Apex code which I posted before.

POWER_OUTAGE
Set OFF
If Power Apex Off 720 Then ON

[FONT=&amp]The return pump has this code[/FONT]

RETURN_PUMP
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Output POWER_OUTAGE = ON Then OFF
If FeedD 720 Then ON

If power failure happens the first set of code tells the pump to not turn on for 720 minutes (12 hours). This gives me time to reset my siphon manually and prevent water on the floor.

Well it had its first unsimulated test on Wednesday. In the middle of the night we had a very slight snow storm that had maybe 1-2 inches. This is nothing and should have caused no issues. But for whatever reason at 7:50am (Long after the snow storm stopped and 10 minutes after I left to drop my daughter off at day care) I get an alert on my phone that says the Apex has lost a connection to Fusion. This could mean the router went offline or the power went out at the house. I never got an update that it was restored so I figured it was just network wifi issues at home and went to work like normal. If my code should have worked it would stay off until 7:50pm and I would have time to restart everything if needed.

I get home from work and see the return pump is still pumping away and the siphon is going like normal. Must have been wifi issues.... Nope. The carpeting is slightly wet and there is a small puddle on the granite top. In my dumb stupidity I had the Return_Pump set to ON on my dashboard rather than AUTO. ON overrides all code you have setup and this failed to keep the pump turned off. The siphon and system however was running just fine and as I was dabbing up the water with a tower I noticed very little of it was actually on the floor. Maybe 1/8-1/4 gallon. It then hit me that I can do something so incredible easy to solve my overflow issue.

LOWER THE WATER LEVEL IN THE RETURN CHAMBER

If the pump can't physically pull any water there can't be any to overflow the display tank rim. This is what happened after the power failure but there was just a little bit too much water in the sump. I've found the absolute maximum amount that will make the system work every time without any code or interference from me.

In this video I used feed mode rather than unplugging the Apex or return pump but shows how the system restarts itself and doesn't overflow.

[youtube]UXV9sCQ2TTc[/youtube]

 

[spsick]

Neat!

 

[ChristopherKriens]

If the pump can't physically pull any water there can't be any to overflow the display tank rim. This is what happened after the power failure but there was just a little bit too much water in the sump. I've found the absolute maximum amount that will make the system work every time without any code or interference from me.

Haha nice solution; I considered this too but I remembered that my DC pumps turn themselves off when they run dry. You might have to stick with your Jebao