Durand tank build (1 Viewer)

[reef junkie]

After months of messing with the overflow box water level I may have finally got things where they need to be. I remember in the beginning right after setting up the tank I did not fight the water level all that much. Or at least I don’t remember having to deal with it daily like Ive been. Then I remember posting about film build up in the return chamber of my sump. So I lowered the water on the return side of the sump to get more speed on the water to create more current over the overflow. I think this may have beem the cause of the start of all my external overflow issues. Late last week I for some reason decided to raise the water level back up to where it was probably more intense to be used at And now Im no longer chasing this water height issue. Im still fine tuning to get it exactly where I want in the external. But the change is maybe 1” in water level changes from morning to night now as suppose to 4-5” in water height change. The water level in the return chamber of the sump I had around 6” deep and Im guessing this just made for an unstable water level ???. Now Im sitting around 7-3/4” deep. I was also able to turn the return pump back all the way up as well. So for the most part things are finally running how I would like. Was feeling very defeated there for a little bit and was starting to look for a new tank with a internal overflow. Luckily this seems to be the fix and now I can focus on coral growth.

For corals, I have a few Acros that came out of established tank that have gone pale. Most of these are lower in the tank. I have also noticed that my hammers are no longer extended out or looking plump like they did right where I added them Into this tank, and my zoa‘s are not growing much. I have a few ideas as to why.
1. Was thinking to low nutrients. I have 10 small fish that get feed twice a day TDO from an auto feeder. They look think but maybe not enough food or wast being added back to the tank and skimmer is skimming everything out? I do have some very think nasty skimate. But I do have some hair algae growing in the external overflow box and bubble algae that seems to keep popping up. So not sure that these two things would be present if nutrients were too low or non existent.
2. Other idea was chemical warfare with all the mixed corals in the tank. Was thinking of running carbon in a mini reactor but I dont want to add anymore equipment unless I have to. I was going to compare my old water to my new water in terms of color to see if I have any discoloration in the water to see if maybe it’s yellowing (saw a BRS video about when to know its time to add carbon). My tank has not been what I would call stabLe either since Ive been trying to increase PH with Kalk and just ended up right about where I was when I was using all for reef in terms of PH. Mag and calk is over what I can read and alk is around 9. Im still working on just raising alk closer to 11 and seeing if calk will come down with the increase in alk.
3.New tank, new/different lights, new equipment. This could just be the symptoms of a new tank. The new green film on the glass makes me think that things are still leveling out to its new normal and until I can get it to where I stop messing or changing things, even if its slow, The tank will continue to show signs of new tank.

 

[reef junkie]

Ugly iPhone pics. But sure is fun.

 

[reef junkie]

After running a few test and doing a water change on Sunday, I have confirmed my issues I had with my ext overflow were all because of having the water to low in my return chamber. Im very surprised to see that such little water height caused all that trouble . Man this was frustrating. Thankfully there were some great people here to assist with giving my some great ides on how to get this right. Thanks!!!!!


Ive added another feeding into my routine And upped the amount of reef chili i was adding to the tank. See if this changes anything. Even spot feed the hammers and a few zoas I‘m trying to get to open up.

 

[reef junkie]

Posting this mostly for me to document the process……

kalk not keeping up. Alk was low this morning after testing a week ago. Sort of burnt out on testing all the time. Added more Kalk powder to stirrer. Will check in a few days to see where my numbers fall. Was at 7.8. Want to be between 8.5 or 9.

ordered a bunch of stuff to do a recirculating co2 scrubber. Ph just not getting over that 8.0. Mostly sits around 7.8 range. After adding the scrubber if I see a big boost in ph. I’m thinking depending on what the next week brings with alk going back to all for reef. Coraline algae grew so much better and corals looked more vibrant before. Only switched with the hopes of getting ph up but only helped a little. Might be to the fact my cal and mag are off the charts and alk was at 8 but now is low. I can’t add anymore kalk water to tank as I’m already at almost full top off rate from stirrer and doser.

Algae growth on glass has slowed down. So maybe switching over to a better fixture from what I was running maybe caused this now that I’m getting full power on the 4 t5’s.

 

[reef junkie]

Finally figured out how ro set up apex to reed from a second ph probe. I was thinking of adding a second to monitor the ph on my stirrer. But when I have tested my stirrers ph it seems to be over what I think the ph probe is calibrated to read. Think I’ll just a second one to the sump so I can monitor if one starts to drift. My current probe and my Hanna never seem to line up.

Got the inside of ther cabinet reconfigured around yesterday so Im ready for the co2 scrubber to arrive. Plus I didn’t like where my controller screen was. I had to reach in over my stirrer to access the buttons and it was not very user friendly. I moved my top off controller as well before realizing I wanted to just move the float switch. So with a little help hear I think I have the parts I need coming from Tunze.

Tested alk today and we are back up to 8.2. This seems to be where I sit with my current setup. So unless I can figure out a way to get more evaporation up so I can add more Kalk to the system think I may be forced to move back to all for reef. Going to give it the week to see if by the end of the week we are up higher to where I want to be. I’d not back to All for Reef and then the slow painful guess on how much to add. LOL

 

[Varig]

Just a checking question, but I assume you’ll keep your kalk going at the “max evaporation dose” and just add all for reef on top to make up the additional usage from your corals? That was my plan at least, knowing that lime water is limited on how much ca/Alk it can make up. That is unless I get brave enough to try kalk slurry, but I think that may be a journey for the next tank.

 

[reef junkie]

Just a checking question, but I assume you’ll keep your kalk going at the “max evaporation dose” and just add all for reef on top to make up the additional usage from your corals? That was my plan at least, knowing that lime water is limited on how much ca/Alk it can make up. That is unless I get brave enough to try kalk slurry, but I think that may be a journey for the next tank.

I was actually planning to take the kalk stirrer off line completely and just run all for reef. Or at least until it can’t keep up if that’s a thing. I only switched with the idea it would raise ph to that 8.2 range. But I only saw a small increase in ph. Also when I ran afr in the past my numbers were all right in range. Since switching to kalk. My mag and cal have been off the charts and alk low I tried just increasing my Kalk dose in hopes it would raise alk and lower cal. But I just can’t add enough because evaporation rate is just too low. I moved loc line from return to create lots of turbulence, and added a power head in the sump for more surface turbulence. But still maxed out. Figured if I just run all for reef and then ever need more boost and I can put stirrer back online and dose in very small amounts.

I’m hesitant to change anything until co2 scrubber is up and running. Maybe pulling the co2 out may make my evaporation go up. But if my alk demand goes up as it will with time, my current set up is maxed out.

 

[reef junkie]

Had the return pump off so grabbed my phone to take some top down pics.

 

[Varig]

Interesting. I’m sure either is fine, I was just curious. I know you hear all these other “potential” benefits of kalkwasser, like helping bind PO4 and encouraging coralline growth etc.

You mentioned your ca/Alk/mag have been way out of balance since using kalkwasser. That’s interesting to me. Since kalk is supposed to add Ca/Alk in the correct ratio for coral growth I would have expected them to stay balanced (if they started balanced) and I wouldn’t have expected (and haven’t seen in my own tank) any impact on magnesium at all.

Remind me, what is your total water volume and how much kalk have you been dosing daily?

I will admit, looking at how much coral you have in your tank I’m not surprised that kalkwasser alone can’t keep up. I have a good on my ~35gallon tank so I only get about 1200-1400mL of evaporation per day. So that for sure limits my kalk, but even with my really sparsely filled tank I can only “just” maintain my ca/Alk with kalkwasser. I’m sure I’ll need to supplement as things continue to grow. But my plan was to just keep the max dose of kalkwasser going and add in all for reef or 2 part balling or whatever to make up the difference.

If you do decide to stop the kalk, it would be interesting to turn it off before you start your co2 scrubber to see if you were getting any ph lift or not. I definitely notice a difference, but it’s not going to print your pH up 1.0 or anything. I think I see 0.3-0.5 of lift or so.

 

[reef junkie]

Interesting. I’m sure either is fine, I was just curious. I know you hear all these other “potential” benefits of kalkwasser, like helping bind PO4 and encouraging coralline growth etc.

You mentioned your ca/Alk/mag have been way out of balance since using kalkwasser. That’s interesting to me. Since kalk is supposed to add Ca/Alk in the correct ratio for coral growth I would have expected them to stay balanced (if they started balanced) and I wouldn’t have expected (and haven’t seen in my own tank) any impact on magnesium at all.

Remind me, what is your total water volume and how much kalk have you been dosing daily?

I will admit, looking at how much coral you have in your tank I’m not surprised that kalkwasser alone can’t keep up. I have a good on my ~35gallon tank so I only get about 1200-1400mL of evaporation per day. So that for sure limits my kalk, but even with my really sparsely filled tank I can only “just” maintain my ca/Alk with kalkwasser. I’m sure I’ll need to supplement as things continue to grow. But my plan was to just keep the max dose of kalkwasser going and add in all for reef or 2 part balling or whatever to make up the difference.

If you do decide to stop the kalk, it would be interesting to turn it off before you start your co2 scrubber to see if you were getting any ph lift or not. I definitely notice a difference, but it’s not going to print your pH up 1.0 or anything. I think I see 0.3-0.5 of lift or so.

I’m currently dosing 1750ml of kalk per day, and this is close to my max evaporation on total of 70 gallon full system. As for the numbers it’s hard to say what they were all at. I only tested for alk and mag. Alk I could get to anything I wanted. Mag was low at 1100 but think I could have gotten it higher if I would have increased my afr a


im hesitant to switch over because things seem to be ok. But just ok. I’ve been watching my stirrer and it seems the kalk powder just seems to spin with being stirrer and not really mix per say. I gave it a little stir today when I added more kalk powder to stir. It might be that maybe my kalk is just becoming a lower solution over time if the stirrer is just not mixing it. After giving a little mix this am. Now my ph is up a little more than it was and my alk is up a little as well. My hammers are looking better and some of my sps are looking less pale. I’m going to monitor for a few days and see what happens.

I’d also be interested in seeing the difference in ph between the two. Maybe I’ll give it a test before turning on scrubber.

I mostly want to switch because I purchase a magnetic stirrer and $150 in afr powder right before getting kalc stirrer. So that’s eating at me to use up. Lol

 

[reef junkie]

I did the dive into the stirrer today since the Vikings didn’t want to play today . I think I’m adding too much kalk to my stirrer. This is creating the kalk mud in the bottom of the stirrer. And what I think is still dissolving is now. So my kalk solution is good for a few weeks and then starts to drift. This would make sense since my alk jumped back up today after adding more kalk powder yesterday. I think I need to add 1/2 cup to the stirrer instead of 1 cup and the monitor and maybe add more kalk powder after 3 weeks instead of 30 days like I was going.

i

 

[Varig]

Okay so based on what I'm seeing from the online calculator I use, I'm 100% NOT surprised your kalk isn't keeping up with your alkalinity demand. With fully saturated lime water (which your kalk stirrer SHOULD be providing, again assuming it's working correctly which it seems like you are actually now adjusting) 1750ml of lime water into 70 gallons is only going to provide 5.79ppm of Ca and 0.82 dkH of Alk. It sounds like you don't know exactly what your daily uptake is, but from all those corals I really have to imagine it's substantially higher than 0.82 dkH (again, quite a few less corals than that, though they seem to be growing well), but I'm dosing 0.98 dkH worth of lime water/kalk into my system to meet the demand.

The other thing I'd be worried about is that 1100 magnesium test result. Others who are smarter than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understand that if your magnesium is too low, it is easier for your ca/alk to precipitate out of the water. I had that happen to me once, no matter how much kalkwasser and 2 part I added, my dkh just kept dropping day after day. Once I got to the point that I was adding like double the amount of dkh than I had been previously I knew something must be up. I researched it and it sounded like the only solution was to stop dosing all ca/alk additives for 3 days so that any free Ca ions could...do something. Anyway, by waiting the 3 days I was then able to slowly build my dkh back up to my desired levels and it took the original, lower dose to keep it stable.

So I guess in conclusion a couple points.

1) Your magnesium MIGHT be too low, contributing to some precipitation. Something to check.
2) I'm guessing that kalkwasser, while beneficial, will never keep up with your full alk demand, so you'll likely need to do a combination of kalkwasser and all-for-reef or 2 part to meet your tanks demands.

BUT, this is advice from a relative newbie. So, worth the price charged if you get my drift . Good luck man. Keep us updated.

 

[reef junkie]

Okay so based on what I'm seeing from the online calculator I use, I'm 100% NOT surprised your kalk isn't keeping up with your alkalinity demand. With fully saturated lime water (which your kalk stirrer SHOULD be providing, again assuming it's working correctly which it seems like you are actually now adjusting) 1750ml of lime water into 70 gallons is only going to provide 5.79ppm of Ca and 0.82 dkH of Alk. It sounds like you don't know exactly what your daily uptake is, but from all those corals I really have to imagine it's substantially higher than 0.82 dkH (again, quite a few less corals than that, though they seem to be growing well), but I'm dosing 0.98 dkH worth of lime water/kalk into my system to meet the demand.

The other thing I'd be worried about is that 1100 magnesium test result. Others who are smarter than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understand that if your magnesium is too low, it is easier for your ca/alk to precipitate out of the water. I had that happen to me once, no matter how much kalkwasser and 2 part I added, my dkh just kept dropping day after day. Once I got to the point that I was adding like double the amount of dkh than I had been previously I knew something must be up. I researched it and it sounded like the only solution was to stop dosing all ca/alk additives for 3 days so that any free Ca ions could...do something. Anyway, by waiting the 3 days I was then able to slowly build my dkh back up to my desired levels and it took the original, lower dose to keep it stable.

So I guess in conclusion a couple points.

1) Your magnesium MIGHT be too low, contributing to some precipitation. Something to check.
2) I'm guessing that kalkwasser, while beneficial, will never keep up with your full alk demand, so you'll likely need to do a combination of kalkwasser and all-for-reef or 2 part to meet your tanks demands.

BUT, this is advice from a relative newbie. So, worth the price charged if you get my drift . Good luck man. Keep us updated.

Appreciate the info. That all makes sense. I have to clearly the 1100 mag was on my old tank when I was running all for reef. changing over to kalc with my new set up my mag and cal are over what I’m able to measure with my test kits.
I’ll keep testing my alk over the nex week and see what happens with my stirrer.
I also turned off my ato and measures the amount of water I added to my ato. Hoping to pinpoint more exact top off rate.
if I figure out that my kalk won’t keep up. Adding all for reef will I assume contribute to my higher then should be magnesium and calcium. But I thought has alk rises calc will come down. If that is the case. Maybe if I can get my alk up near 9dkh. Maybe my calc will come down where measurable again.

 

[Varig]

I guess others will know better than me. I’ve never heard of Calcium coming down as you raise alkalinity. I could understand if you were using 2 part and only doing the alkalinity part such that eventually the calcium would get used and balance out? But I guess I have always just understood that with kalkwasser you’ll be adding equal parts regardless.

Regardless, thanks for the frequent updates. It really helps me, as a newbie, learn through how other people deal with their issues. It’s never helpful to look at a perfect tank and say “what did you do??!” But I find learning through our mistakes is what will really build our ability to succeed. So again, thanks for sharing your journey. Keep it up.

Speaking of this…I should update my own build thread…..

 

[reef junkie]

I guess others will know better than me. I’ve never heard of Calcium coming down as you raise alkalinity. I could understand if you were using 2 part and only doing the alkalinity part such that eventually the calcium would get used and balance out? But I guess I have always just understood that with kalkwasser you’ll be adding equal parts regardless.

Regardless, thanks for the frequent updates. It really helps me, as a newbie, learn through how other people deal with their issues. It’s never helpful to look at a perfect tank and say “what did you do??!” But I find learning through our mistakes is what will really build our ability to succeed. So again, thanks for sharing your journey. Keep it up.

Speaking of this…I should update my own build thread…..

I like updating my builds as much as I can. When I got back into the hobby this time around it was great to go back and see my old builds and see what worked and didn’t and then reminder how much fun it was. Then hopefully someone can learn from all the mistakes I like to make along the war

 

[reef junkie]

Tested again this morning and we are back to 8.5 Dkh for alkalinity. I must have just let my stirrer go too long before adding more Kalk powder. Im going to start replacing it every 3 weeks now instead of 4 like last month. I also increased my dosage by 50ml per day. See if this gets me to 9 dkh. After leaving my top off pump off for 24 hours im sitting a little low on the return pump. Im guessing im around that 1800-1900 ml or 1/2 gallon per day for evaporation. Ph is at 7.77 as well this morning. Hopefully ive worked the bugs out now for my Kalk dosing. For now looks like I am right where I need to be for Alk. Im gonna guess by summer I’ll be adding all for reef to the system to keep up with demand assuming my evaporation rate would likely slow down when the weather changes. Scrubber parts should be here by the end of the week. Looking forward to having something else to work the bugs out of LOL.

 

[reef junkie]

Forgot to add I increased the tank temp from 77°-78°. Maybe this little bit of added heat will create a little more evaporation. I think I have more wiggle room to added more kalk also. Sump was a little low this afternoon. Will see how low we are when I get up in the am.

 

[reef junkie]

Now that im not so focused on my overflow box water level im learning more from my tank. I actullly have room to go up even more on my Kalk top off. My water level in my return was still low this am after bumping up my doses. Im going to keep dialing that in to get closer to my top off rate or hit 9 DKH, but still leave a little room for the ATO to kick on. This hopefully will account for the weather changes and evaporation rate changing. Then i will just add all for reef to get me the rest of the way or maintaining the level i end up settling in at.

 

[Varig]

This is a bit "academic" but I would like to correct my assertion above that I was surprised that kalk would be able to keep up with your larger coral volume versus my tank. While I "THOUGHT" I was dosing basically my full evaporation rate per day, it turns out I was an idiot. For safety on my kalk doser I have the pH probe on my controller setting the "upper limit" for pH (again, just to prevent the doser going crazy and raising the pH way too high). Well, I obviously didn't understand my control. It has a target pH and then a hysteresis (plus and minus). I thought the "max" it would allow was the target plus the hysteresis, so I set my target to 8.2 +/- 0.3, thinking it would then never go above 8.5. WELL, that was wrong. I'm not exactly sure what the positive side of the hysteresis does yet, but what DOES happen is it stops my kalk doser at 8.2 and doesn't let it run again until it is 7.9. So being the dummy that I am, I kept just increasing my hourly kalk dose on the schedule until my dkh was constant, thinking I was dosing every hour because my pH never got near 8.5. But it is consistently above 8.2, like from 2pm-2am, so during that full time it wasn't dosing kalk at all.

I guess in some respects it's not "terrible" that all of my kalk dose was coming at night with this configuration (slightly larger doses over ~12 hours instead of equal throughout the day) from a pH perspective. But it definitely wasn't what I thought it was doing from the standpoint of how much kalk it was taking to keep up with my corals. So again, this doesn't really impact you, just keep on keeping on. But I wanted to at least correct my incorrect statements above. Happy reefing

 

[reef junkie]

This is a bit "academic" but I would like to correct my assertion above that I was surprised that kalk would be able to keep up with your larger coral volume versus my tank. While I "THOUGHT" I was dosing basically my full evaporation rate per day, it turns out I was an idiot. For safety on my kalk doser I have the pH probe on my controller setting the "upper limit" for pH (again, just to prevent the doser going crazy and raising the pH way too high). Well, I obviously didn't understand my control. It has a target pH and then a hysteresis (plus and minus). I thought the "max" it would allow was the target plus the hysteresis, so I set my target to 8.2 +/- 0.3, thinking it would then never go above 8.5. WELL, that was wrong. I'm not exactly sure what the positive side of the hysteresis does yet, but what DOES happen is it stops my kalk doser at 8.2 and doesn't let it run again until it is 7.9. So being the dummy that I am, I kept just increasing my hourly kalk dose on the schedule until my dkh was constant, thinking I was dosing every hour because my pH never got near 8.5. But it is consistently above 8.2, like from 2pm-2am, so during that full time it wasn't dosing kalk at all.

I guess in some respects it's not "terrible" that all of my kalk dose was coming at night with this configuration (slightly larger doses over ~12 hours instead of equal throughout the day) from a pH perspective. But it definitely wasn't what I thought it was doing from the standpoint of how much kalk it was taking to keep up with my corals. So again, this doesn't really impact you, just keep on keeping on. But I wanted to at least correct my incorrect statements above. Happy reefing

These controllers can be a little tricky. LOL I know I had mine set that if it went over that 8.5 Ph to shut off. When I tested my stirrer one day to see what my Kalk solution was at it jumped over the 8.5 obviously. But I never set up the controller to turn back on. So for 2 days I chanced the why is my numbers drifting so fast. Turns out you need a setting to turn the controller back on if the PH gets too low as well. Oops. LOL .

My parts start ed showing up yesterday. Co2 scrubber kit from BRS arrived along with some fittings. Ball valve should be here Thurstay, not sure on the 3d printed items and my new magnet for ATO to I can separate the float valve from the sensor. I trying to figure out if I want to mount the scrubber on my back wall of the tank or get some acrylic and have sit on above the Sump. Need room for the evaporation container I ordered with it also. Cabinet is starting to run out of room LOL. My ocd is already going crazy with the mess that is starting to happen down there. Hopefully I can’t wait until the 1 year mark before I can’t take it any more and have to rework/clean up the mess. LOl

Figured out my evaporation rate is if Im doing this right. It took 105 hours to evaporate the 13L of water i added to my top off. Figuring that at 13,000ML or 2971ml in 24 hours. Im only dosing 1800ml per day. So I have lots of room To increase my dosage. I thought I was so much closer to my evaporation rate. But I suppose my sump levels were going up and down so much in the beginning when I was figuring out my overflow situation it was hard to get a good read on the levels in the sump. This time I actually bought a measuring bucket so I could get a better read on my actual add of water. So now knowing my actual evaporation rate I’ll be bumping up my dose. Sort of nervous since my dosing pump will only do 24 doses aver a 24 hour period. So I’ll be adding about 100ml plus at a time. It’s a fast drip but still a lot i feel at once.