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What should I keep in mind when planning plumbing? (1 Viewer)

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miltonkl

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Getting ready to set up my first tank with a sump soon. What should I be thinking about as far as plumbing goes to make my life easier in the long term? The overflow I got has 3/4 inch drains but my sump has 1.5 inch drains, so somewhere I'll need to adjust that, presumably I'll just throw an adapter at the bottom as it goes into the sump (or maybe I'll be able to change out those bulkheads completely, I haven't checked).

I know I've seen people online mention that I should have unions "wherever you can" (but that's ambiguous) and making sure I have a check valve on the returns so they can't back siphon. I also often see mention of people setting up "manifolds" where they can loop in other equipment as needed. What would you suggest I pre-plan for and have set up right away? Should I just plumb for what I need now (which is just drains and returns) and know that I'll potentially re-do parts of it down the road?
 
The reason for the union suggestion is you will change something eventually and unions make it easy to take out a pipe section and change it. At minimum you want one right after the tank, and another right before the sump. Depending on how hard it would be to get the pipe section out you may want to add one inbetween too.

Check valves are more of a convenience rather than something you should trust. They will fail so you should plan your sump capacity so that it can hold all the water that drains back to it when the return is off. The only reason for a check valve is if you don't want to have to deal with the sump level rising when you do maintenance. Just realize they will start letting water past them about a year or two after installing unless you regularly remove the check valves and clean. I installed some with unions on mine with the intention of cleaning them but have not yet because they are a pain to get to. They are basically non functional 3.5 years after installing them.

With a 3/4" tank bulkheads I would probably upsize my plumbing to 1" right after it exits the tank. Also plan what kind of overflow type you are using. If doing a Herbie or Durso use a gate valve not a ball valve. Gates are a lot easier to adjust and ball valves tend to stick after time.
 
That was a really great video. Sounds like I need to find some pvc bulkheads and get ready to pay up on some valves, lol.

I like the three straight pipes he uses for the overflow. I never quite understood why the beananimal is often seen using u shapes--is that just to make it less likely something (snail) gets into it to jam it up?
 
I know you're asking about plumbing but one thing most of us forget...and if you don't have a stand or haven't built one yet....give yourself plenty of head room under the tank or it'll be a pain for maintenance
 
AmyZ said:
I know you're asking about plumbing but one thing most of us forget...and if you don't have a stand or haven't built one yet....give yourself plenty of head room under the tank or it'll be a pain for maintenance
Click to expand...

I'm in the process of building one (pieces cut but not assembled). I think I'll have a decent enough amount of space above the sump (we'll see in practice) though I think the sump I have is going to fill basically every inch I have left to right. I should probably try a dry fit of sorts to see how well it actually fits. Real life practical fit can feel very different from measurement/mathematical fit.
 
Avoid soft vinyl tubing, it leaches tin. Use hard pvc, silicone, and/or Tygon tubing.
 
I would highly recommend a pvc pipe cutter, best $20 Ive ever spent, if you don't have one you're welcome to borrow mine. Definitely do a dry fit, I had a couple pieces that I cut to short. One other bit of advise is when gluing pvc pipe to a bulkhead or union valve make sure to push the pipe all the way in and hold it for 10/15 seconds because they have a tendency to push the pipe out which may have been covered in the video.
 
When I had a sump. I was told to use soft tubing( small piece) between the return pump and the hard pipe. Less vibration and noise from rerun pump that way. No evidence it didn’t work. Only way I ran the system.
 
reef junkie said:
When I had a sump. I was told to use soft tubing( small piece) between the return pump and the hard pipe. Less vibration and noise from rerun pump that way. No evidence it didn’t work. Only way I ran the system.
Click to expand...

I do plan to do this soft tubing, if only for the ability to move the return pump around a little if needed to clean around it or something.

lifelinefish said:
I would highly recommend a pvc pipe cutter, best $20 Ive ever spent, if you don't have one you're welcome to borrow mine. Definitely do a dry fit, I had a couple pieces that I cut to short. One other bit of advise is when gluing pvc pipe to a bulkhead or union valve make sure to push the pipe all the way in and hold it for 10/15 seconds because they have a tendency to push the pipe out which may have been covered in the video.
Click to expand...

I have one of the cutters that spins around the pipe, but not the bypass pruner looking ones. It's been YEARS since I used that thing on a sink plumbing project and I can't remember how it worked, so I'll try it out on a piece of scrap and see how it does.

I needed to order some RODI filters from BRS today so I went ahead and grabbed some 3/4" loc-line and adapters for the returns while I was at my free shipping threshold. Hopefully that's a good size choice. From what I was seeing 1/2 and 3/4 were the most common sizes for those.
 
Looks like you are getting some good input. I’ll echo and add some of my perspective.

Unions are a must in my opinion. And you almost can’t have too many. You will benefit from unions on every section of plumbing. Definitely on both sides of any equipment that is installed in line for accessing to clean/repair/replace. Both ends of drain lines, manifolds and any elbows can also be beneficial for cleaning and updating plumbing system. Also on your return line, after pump and before the bulkhead will be useful.

You mentioned valves, also a benefit in many areas. You can get gate valves, ball valves and union valves. Ball valves will work just fine though they are a bit more difficult to fine tune flow. Gate valves articulate much more incrementally and can be tuned easier. Union valves are a great option for implementing unions and flow control, but they are certainly more expensive. I like having a valve on every drain line, return line and manifold.

A manifold is a great idea to incorporate in the initial design. It allows you to add equipment, reactors and other components without breaking down the whole system. And if you install a valve, you can do the additions without shutting it down. A basic manifold is simply a tee off your return line. Several tees could be installed inline, but a single one with a valve will allow for adding more.

There is flexible PVC available in common sizes. I would suggest using that in the connection to the return pump to reduce vibration noise. It can also be used for some bends to reduce head pressure.

I believe the idea behind the U bends in drains serves multiple functions. You may be on to something about reducing critter infiltration, but ideally they can’t easily get into the overflow to begin with. Covers and screens should be used to prevent that. I think the biggest advantage of bean style drains is the silent operation. By having the U bends, the possibility of sucking air into the lines is reduced. It is also the only way to get a true siphon break into the secondary line. Without an air gap the secondary line could engage a full siphon and flood the sump if there was a return pump or drain issue.

No matter what you do, you will likely find areas to update and improve after some time of operation. Give yourself room to work and perform maintenance.

Is your tank drilled? I could help you with that if you need. Though there is likely someone in the metro area that could.

Best If luck dude!
 
Reefer Oz said:
Looks like you are getting some good input. I’ll echo and add some of my perspective.

Unions are a must in my opinion. And you almost can’t have too many. You will benefit from unions on every section of plumbing. Definitely on both sides of any equipment that is installed in line for accessing to clean/repair/replace. Both ends of drain lines, manifolds and any elbows can also be beneficial for cleaning and updating plumbing system. Also on your return line, after pump and before the bulkhead will be useful.

You mentioned valves, also a benefit in many areas. You can get gate valves, ball valves and union valves. Ball valves will work just fine though they are a bit more difficult to fine tune flow. Gate valves articulate much more incrementally and can be tuned easier. Union valves are a great option for implementing unions and flow control, but they are certainly more expensive. I like having a valve on every drain line, return line and manifold.

A manifold is a great idea to incorporate in the initial design. It allows you to add equipment, reactors and other components without breaking down the whole system. And if you install a valve, you can do the additions without shutting it down. A basic manifold is simply a tee off your return line. Several tees could be installed inline, but a single one with a valve will allow for adding more.

There is flexible PVC available in common sizes. I would suggest using that in the connection to the return pump to reduce vibration noise. It can also be used for some bends to reduce head pressure.

I believe the idea behind the U bends in drains serves multiple functions. You may be on to something about reducing critter infiltration, but ideally they can’t easily get into the overflow to begin with. Covers and screens should be used to prevent that. I think the biggest advantage of bean style drains is the silent operation. By having the U bends, the possibility of sucking air into the lines is reduced. It is also the only way to get a true siphon break into the secondary line. Without an air gap the secondary line could engage a full siphon and flood the sump if there was a return pump or drain issue.

No matter what you do, you will likely find areas to update and improve after some time of operation. Give yourself room to work and perform maintenance.

Is your tank drilled? I could help you with that if you need. Though there is likely someone in the metro area that could.

Best If luck dude!
Click to expand...
It is not drilled yet but I ordered the overflow from modular marine. I appreciate the offer for help (though you don't want to be driving down here with these gas prices!), I might wind up asking for help from someone to be safe when that time comes, or see if someone has some drill bits around at least. I think the overflow comes with one but I'll may need a different size for the returns.
 
miltonkl said:
It is not drilled yet but I ordered the overflow from modular marine. I appreciate the offer for help (though you don't want to be driving down here with these gas prices!), I might wind up asking for help from someone to be safe when that time comes, or see if someone has some drill bits around at least. I think the overflow comes with one but I'll may need a different size for the returns.
Click to expand...

FWIW on my modular marine the best setup inside the box was just a bulkhead strainer or nothing on the full siphon and a ~2” riser with a 45 and a strainer on the partial drain. Thing has been awesome and only needs minor adjustment after a pump cleaning. With the U on my previous Synergy I had to constantly adjust for whatever reason.
 
Lots of great ideas on here!

My best advice, don't settle for garbage fittings at Menards or elsewhere. If you need a specific part find it online and wait for it to show. Worst thing is hacking it together because the box store carries junk.
 
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RSnodgrass said:
Lots of great I for on here!

My best advice, don't settle for garbage fittings at Menards or elsewhere. If you need a specific part find it online and wait for it to show. Worst thing is hacking it together because the box store carries junk.
Click to expand...

I've been working on trying to get the plumbing together though I don't know the first thing about plumbing so am kind of winging it but I've noticed that most things I am finding myself needing aren't available at the big box stores anyway, lol. I did grab basic straight pipe and 90 elbows from Home Depot but those seemed like safe bets and I don't care about getting nice colored pipes this time around. Where does everyone order their plumbing from? I've been kind of jumping around at BRS and Amazon and looking on ebay and its a struggle to find some of the pieces I find myself needing--though I'm probably being inefficient since it's my first experience. :)

spsick said:
FWIW on my modular marine the best setup inside the box was just a bulkhead strainer or nothing on the full siphon and a ~2” riser with a 45 and a strainer on the partial drain. Thing has been awesome and only needs minor adjustment after a pump cleaning. With the U on my previous Synergy I had to constantly adjust for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
Finally opened my MM overflow and stuck it on the tank to dry fit and yeah... no way I'm dealing with U pipes in this little box. I think I'm gonna follow your lead on nothing or a strainer and just straight pips. I'm not looking forward to working around the bulkheads coming in from the tank. I'm guessing I'll need to cut them down. Maybe that 45 was to help you get around on of these?
 
Don’t get frustrated if you end up needing a different/additional parts. It isn’t always easy to know exactly what you’ll need. The fun is the journey AND the destination.
 
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Having some issues with the threaded fittings I've got going. My return bulkheads are 1inch but the locline is 3/4 so I had to do get a threaded reducer (could only find it in spears brand at like $8 a bushing, yikes!). The reducer (only screws about halfway into the bulkhead and the locline connector piece (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/loc-line-male-npt-connector.html) likewise only screws about halfway into the bushing.

I don't want to ruin it trying to force it in or anything but I assume these should thread all the way in, no?

I've already ruined a drain bulkhead and bushing on the sump side because I couldn't get the pvc to slide in to save my life. None of the 3 fit AT ALL while dry but from what I found online expected them to slide together once primer and cemnt was applied and the first two did just that and magically slid together like butter but that third one would only go in about a quarter inch for some reason. Who knew this stuff was gonna be so tricky just to put together! :)
 
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